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Training/Fooling You
Started by NoSoup4you at 2009/10/17 01:09PMLatest post: 2009/10/21 12:30PM, Views: 1034, Replies: 51
#21
2009/10/20 11:38AM
Re: Training/Fooling You
JaneDoe |
Quote genhospchat: Quote JaneDoe: Quote genhospchat: Quote Mother of an Angel: I've always tended to go with the flow. I've had my favorites over the years, like Luke and Laura. I've had some that I felt were mediocre, and others where I had to find something else to do while they occupied the screen. I read some time ago where the term came from-but I don't remember whether it was Guza or Frons that was quoted. I also don't remember off the top of my head which publication printed the interview. The gist of the article was that they didn't care what the fans liked, the fans could be trained to like who they chose to pair, etc. It ticked off many viewers from what I remember, as it does show a lot of disrespect for the viewers. The characters will have their ups and downs, but I hate it when I find a character I knew who has suddenly become a stranger. Like when they turned Tony Jones into a babynapper. For some it feels like a betrayal that they've invested so much into a character to have them morph into someone who looks like their old favorite, but totally unrecognizable otherwise. You are absolutely correct MOA! It wasn't US the posters that came up with that comment about being trained, it came from Frons's mouth! If it didn't come from the horse himself, then we wouldn't HAVE TO respond would we? If anyone is upset by comments like "we can't be trained," that upset should be aimed at Frons for his obvious lack of respect for viewers for making that comment in the first place and NOT as us here on the boards! I don't mind the comment "we can't be trained" because if that's the way you feel, there's nothing wrong with that statement. There have been some posts where people insinuated that they weren't dumb enough to be trained. As someone who admits to being FULLY trainable, it sounds like only us "dumb" fans can be trained.  I wouldn't imagine that is what was meant (I can't remember the post...did "I" say it? Geez ask me something that happened on GH twenty years ago I can tell ya but ask me something written last week and I have NO IDEA!) I would think, from what was meant by Frons's statement and what's been said here and how the board works lately, is the comment was meant that THAT PERSON wasn't dumb enough to fall for Frons's crap because they weren't enjoying it and never would, even if he says they "should because they can be trained". I don't think it would be meant for anyone who ALREADY enjoyed what was happening. If there was something going on on your screen that you were not enjoying AT ALL and knew you never would, could YOU be trained to like it? Probably not right?! You like what you like and no matter what ANY exec said (remember his words were "they will be trained to like it"), you STILL wouldn't like it, therefore "you couldn't be trained." Gosh I hope that made sense! I'm sure it wasn't meant that way and honestly...I cannot remember who said it (seems like it was several people). But when someone insinuates that they are not dumb enough to be trained....the conclusion can be made for all. No one can MAKE me like anything, but there have been MANY times that I thought I'd never like something and lo and behold the writers do something to make me change my opinion. Example: I loved Liz and Lucky and I loved Jason and Robin and I never thought Liz belonged with Jason.....what do you know, I loved Jason and Liz. Same goes with Sam and Jason, NEVER thought I'd like that and what do you know.....LOVED them.  I hated what the writers did to them, but once again I was sold on Liz and Jason.  Now here we are today at a time I never thought I'd want JaSam again and what do you know.....Love them again! It has to be the writing and even though there was a time I said NO WAY, I DO NOT WANT THIS........I'm enjoying it anyway. Obviously if you are dead set against something then no, no one is going to change that and Frons or whoever made the comment was naive to think that it could work for everyone......but it did work for some, myself included. I don't view it as a bad thing and when someone says they are not dumb enough for it to happen to them......sounds like I'm dumb enough to allow it to happen to me. 
|
#22
2009/10/20 11:51AM
Re: Training/Fooling You
genhospchat |
Quote JaneDoe: Quote genhospchat: Quote JaneDoe: Quote genhospchat: Quote Mother of an Angel: I've always tended to go with the flow. I've had my favorites over the years, like Luke and Laura. I've had some that I felt were mediocre, and others where I had to find something else to do while they occupied the screen. I read some time ago where the term came from-but I don't remember whether it was Guza or Frons that was quoted. I also don't remember off the top of my head which publication printed the interview. The gist of the article was that they didn't care what the fans liked, the fans could be trained to like who they chose to pair, etc. It ticked off many viewers from what I remember, as it does show a lot of disrespect for the viewers. The characters will have their ups and downs, but I hate it when I find a character I knew who has suddenly become a stranger. Like when they turned Tony Jones into a babynapper. For some it feels like a betrayal that they've invested so much into a character to have them morph into someone who looks like their old favorite, but totally unrecognizable otherwise. You are absolutely correct MOA! It wasn't US the posters that came up with that comment about being trained, it came from Frons's mouth! If it didn't come from the horse himself, then we wouldn't HAVE TO respond would we? If anyone is upset by comments like "we can't be trained," that upset should be aimed at Frons for his obvious lack of respect for viewers for making that comment in the first place and NOT as us here on the boards! I don't mind the comment "we can't be trained" because if that's the way you feel, there's nothing wrong with that statement. There have been some posts where people insinuated that they weren't dumb enough to be trained. As someone who admits to being FULLY trainable, it sounds like only us "dumb" fans can be trained. I wouldn't imagine that is what was meant (I can't remember the post...did "I" say it? Geez ask me something that happened on GH twenty years ago I can tell ya but ask me something written last week and I have NO IDEA!) I would think, from what was meant by Frons's statement and what's been said here and how the board works lately, is the comment was meant that THAT PERSON wasn't dumb enough to fall for Frons's crap because they weren't enjoying it and never would, even if he says they "should because they can be trained". I don't think it would be meant for anyone who ALREADY enjoyed what was happening. If there was something going on on your screen that you were not enjoying AT ALL and knew you never would, could YOU be trained to like it? Probably not right?! You like what you like and no matter what ANY exec said (remember his words were "they will be trained to like it"), you STILL wouldn't like it, therefore "you couldn't be trained." Gosh I hope that made sense! I'm sure it wasn't meant that way and honestly...I cannot remember who said it (seems like it was several people). But when someone insinuates that they are not dumb enough to be trained....the conclusion can be made for all. No one can MAKE me like anything, but there have been MANY times that I thought I'd never like something and lo and behold the writers do something to make me change my opinion. Example: I loved Liz and Lucky and I loved Jason and Robin and I never thought Liz belonged with Jason.....what do you know, I loved Jason and Liz. Same goes with Sam and Jason, NEVER thought I'd like that and what do you know.....LOVED them. I hated what the writers did to them, but once again I was sold on Liz and Jason. Now here we are today at a time I never thought I'd want JaSam again and what do you know.....Love them again! It has to be the writing and even though there was a time I said NO WAY, I DO NOT WANT THIS........I'm enjoying it anyway. Obviously if you are dead set against something then no, no one is going to change that and Frons or whoever made the comment was naive to think that it could work for everyone......but it did work for some, myself included. I don't view it as a bad thing and when someone says they are not dumb enough for it to happen to them......sounds like I'm dumb enough to allow it to happen to me. I see what you're saying and I HOPE it wasn't meant that way! Personally, I enjoyed Jasam the first time for the first month or so but then they changed into something I didn't enjoy and I stopped watching them. Years later I went back and watched Jasam just to say "ok I'll give them a chance" and realized that I really didn't like them because I didn't feel they showcased anything positive on the other. Sam became needy and Jason became a shadow and they didn't interact with the rest of the show, they were just "them" and it got dull. Even this time around, I admit there were a couple of funny moments with them but for me it is the same story all over again and there is nothing else going on with them and Jason is just a shadow and Sam is less needy but she still doesn't have anything of her own thing going on aside from Jason so I am not enjoying it again. I LOVED LL2 the first time around, they were one of my fave couples of ALL TIME but I know I wouldn't enjoy it again, no matter if JJ's around or not because they have written them to the point that there is nothing left between them and have pushed them so far away from each other that even JJ can't bring that back. I won't be "trained" to like them just because it's JJ (  ) Will I still love their scenes together, absolutely, IF they're not SUDDENLY in love again. Though as I keep repeating I am more interested in JJ's interactions with TG and SBu. Was there something I didn't think I'd like but then did...hmmm? I was weary of ANYONE taking over the role of Carly after SBr but I like LW in the role, though enough time has passed that SBr's Carly was a distant memory so it was easier to accept. Also, initially I wasn't sure I'd like Carly because I LOVED Tony and Bobbie and while I didn't like Carly getting in between them, I LOVED SBr's portrayal of her! Oh and SBr's Carly got me to tolerate Sonny! Does that count? |
#23
2009/10/20 12:00PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
JaneDoe |
Quote genhospchat: Quote JaneDoe: Quote genhospchat: Quote JaneDoe: Quote genhospchat: Quote Mother of an Angel: I've always tended to go with the flow. I've had my favorites over the years, like Luke and Laura. I've had some that I felt were mediocre, and others where I had to find something else to do while they occupied the screen. I read some time ago where the term came from-but I don't remember whether it was Guza or Frons that was quoted. I also don't remember off the top of my head which publication printed the interview. The gist of the article was that they didn't care what the fans liked, the fans could be trained to like who they chose to pair, etc. It ticked off many viewers from what I remember, as it does show a lot of disrespect for the viewers. The characters will have their ups and downs, but I hate it when I find a character I knew who has suddenly become a stranger. Like when they turned Tony Jones into a babynapper. For some it feels like a betrayal that they've invested so much into a character to have them morph into someone who looks like their old favorite, but totally unrecognizable otherwise. You are absolutely correct MOA! It wasn't US the posters that came up with that comment about being trained, it came from Frons's mouth! If it didn't come from the horse himself, then we wouldn't HAVE TO respond would we? If anyone is upset by comments like "we can't be trained," that upset should be aimed at Frons for his obvious lack of respect for viewers for making that comment in the first place and NOT as us here on the boards! I don't mind the comment "we can't be trained" because if that's the way you feel, there's nothing wrong with that statement. There have been some posts where people insinuated that they weren't dumb enough to be trained. As someone who admits to being FULLY trainable, it sounds like only us "dumb" fans can be trained. I wouldn't imagine that is what was meant (I can't remember the post...did "I" say it? Geez ask me something that happened on GH twenty years ago I can tell ya but ask me something written last week and I have NO IDEA!) I would think, from what was meant by Frons's statement and what's been said here and how the board works lately, is the comment was meant that THAT PERSON wasn't dumb enough to fall for Frons's crap because they weren't enjoying it and never would, even if he says they "should because they can be trained". I don't think it would be meant for anyone who ALREADY enjoyed what was happening. If there was something going on on your screen that you were not enjoying AT ALL and knew you never would, could YOU be trained to like it? Probably not right?! You like what you like and no matter what ANY exec said (remember his words were "they will be trained to like it"), you STILL wouldn't like it, therefore "you couldn't be trained." Gosh I hope that made sense! I'm sure it wasn't meant that way and honestly...I cannot remember who said it (seems like it was several people). But when someone insinuates that they are not dumb enough to be trained....the conclusion can be made for all. No one can MAKE me like anything, but there have been MANY times that I thought I'd never like something and lo and behold the writers do something to make me change my opinion. Example: I loved Liz and Lucky and I loved Jason and Robin and I never thought Liz belonged with Jason.....what do you know, I loved Jason and Liz. Same goes with Sam and Jason, NEVER thought I'd like that and what do you know.....LOVED them. I hated what the writers did to them, but once again I was sold on Liz and Jason. Now here we are today at a time I never thought I'd want JaSam again and what do you know.....Love them again! It has to be the writing and even though there was a time I said NO WAY, I DO NOT WANT THIS........I'm enjoying it anyway. Obviously if you are dead set against something then no, no one is going to change that and Frons or whoever made the comment was naive to think that it could work for everyone......but it did work for some, myself included. I don't view it as a bad thing and when someone says they are not dumb enough for it to happen to them......sounds like I'm dumb enough to allow it to happen to me. I see what you're saying and I HOPE it wasn't meant that way! Personally, I enjoyed Jasam the first time for the first month or so but then they changed into something I didn't enjoy and I stopped watching them. Years later I went back and watched Jasam just to say "ok I'll give them a chance" and realized that I really didn't like them because I didn't feel they showcased anything positive on the other. Sam became needy and Jason became a shadow and they didn't interact with the rest of the show, they were just "them" and it got dull. Even this time around, I admit there were a couple of funny moments with them but for me it is the same story all over again and there is nothing else going on with them and Jason is just a shadow and Sam is less needy but she still doesn't have anything of her own thing going on aside from Jason so I am not enjoying it again. I LOVED LL2 the first time around, they were one of my fave couples of ALL TIME but I know I wouldn't enjoy it again, no matter if JJ's around or not because they have written them to the point that there is nothing left between them and have pushed them so far away from each other that even JJ can't bring that back. I won't be "trained" to like them just because it's JJ ( ) Will I still love their scenes together, absolutely, IF they're not SUDDENLY in love again. Though as I keep repeating I am more interested in JJ's interactions with TG and SBu. Was there something I didn't think I'd like but then did...hmmm? I was weary of ANYONE taking over the role of Carly after SBr but I like LW in the role, though enough time has passed that SBr's Carly was a distant memory so it was easier to accept. Also, initially I wasn't sure I'd like Carly because I LOVED Tony and Bobbie and while I didn't like Carly getting in between them, I LOVED SBr's portrayal of her! Oh and SBr's Carly got me to tolerate Sonny! Does that count? Funny you brought up Carly.....HATED her at first because like you, I loved Tony and Bobbie and I loved Jason and Robin. SJB made me love her despite that. I started liking Sonny when he was with Brenda and could NEVER imagine liking him with anyone else.....but ended up LOVING him with Carly. I also loved Carly and Jason even though I LOVED Jason and Robin. (I know...strange! ) I haven't liked Sonny since Carly and I say now that I NEVER want them together again, but I've learned to never say never. I think you are secretly trainable Gen, you just don't know it yet. All the signs are there.
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Modified 1 times(s), last time at:
2009/10/20 12:01PM
#24
2009/10/20 01:46PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
NoSoup4you |
Sorry to interrupt the flow ladies. |
#25
2009/10/20 01:48PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
NoSoup4you |
Ooo! another example..... Twilight. The ending of Breaking Dawn was a disappointment for me. I had it all planned out in my head, what would happen. When it did not I was bummed for a few weeks...... but then as the story settled, I realized it ended exactly how it should. Now I love Breaking Dawn and am at peace with the whole story. Its the writers choice. |
#26
2009/10/20 03:13PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
genhospchat |
Quote NoSoup4you: Sorry to interrupt the flow ladies. just adding some more thoughts in regard to the previous posts.I don't think "training" means "like", but means to accept (or is it except ) what is happening on screen with given character or couple despite your personal preferences. For example, I (and many would agree or not) never appreciated Kelly and Dillon as a couple on 90210, but despite my personal feelings about it, I accepted that they were a couple and reasons for it and adventure grew to be invested in their story as well, because it was part of the whole show....... Was I being training? Well I am like you NoSoup, I never appreciated Kelly and Dillon on 90210 but I never liked or accepted them either. I left the show for a bit because I thought that it ruined a lot of good characters with this pairing (I did watch them for a while). Everyone had to constantly get in their business because they CONSTANTLY fought and they always went to other's whining about the other and it got to be too much and became more about them (a couple I did not like, nor that were showing me anything interesting but the same old, same old everyday) than about the show as a whole and NO I couldn't be trained to just watch and accept it because that's ALL I ever saw. If they were on once in a blue moon, then ok but their story started integrating with EVERYONE'S story so I just couldn't sit and pretend that I was enjoying it when I wasn't. I never did understand WHY they put Kelly and Dillon together but then never showed them happy for more than a minute and a half and wanted us to believe (be trained?) that they were the love of each other's lives!? Then when Dillon came back and got in the middle of Kelly and Brandon (I waited A LOT of years for them to FINALLY be together), it made me dislike even the thought of that pairing even more because they weren't happy together but it took away two people who WERE happy. |
#27
2009/10/20 03:39PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
alikat |
Quote genhospchat: Quote NoSoup4you: Sorry to interrupt the flow ladies. just adding some more thoughts in regard to the previous posts.I don't think "training" means "like", but means to accept (or is it except ) what is happening on screen with given character or couple despite your personal preferences. For example, I (and many would agree or not) never appreciated Kelly and Dillon as a couple on 90210, but despite my personal feelings about it, I accepted that they were a couple and reasons for it and adventure grew to be invested in their story as well, because it was part of the whole show....... Was I being training? Well I am like you NoSoup, I never appreciated Kelly and Dillon on 90210 but I never liked or accepted them either. I left the show for a bit because I thought that it ruined a lot of good characters with this pairing (I did watch them for a while). Everyone had to constantly get in their business because they CONSTANTLY fought and they always went to other's whining about the other and it got to be too much and became more about them (a couple I did not like, nor that were showing me anything interesting but the same old, same old everyday) than about the show as a whole and NO I couldn't be trained to just watch and accept it because that's ALL I ever saw. If they were on once in a blue moon, then ok but their story started integrating with EVERYONE'S story so I just couldn't sit and pretend that I was enjoying it when I wasn't. I never did understand WHY they put Kelly and Dillon together but then never showed them happy for more than a minute and a half and wanted us to believe (be trained?) that they were the love of each other's lives!? Then when Dillon came back and got in the middle of Kelly and Brandon (I waited A LOT of years for them to FINALLY be together), it made me dislike even the thought of that pairing even more because they weren't happy together but it took away two people who WERE happy. Classic two girls bff's, one guy conflict. then after Brenda left it was classic two guys bff's one girl conflict. Which is what kept you coming back for more. Even though you liked it or didn't like it. You watched. same goes for GH...the classic soapy stories keep us glued...we roll our eyes until they hurt, we guess the plot before it's aired, we root for the good guy, boo hiss the bad guy...or sometimes root for the bad guy, boo hiss the good guy...all because it's our soap and we love it. |
#28
2009/10/20 04:30PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
meowbowow |
Quote Mother of an Angel: Hey Wishing, good to see you! I have no problem with having a character grow or change over time. It's the changes that give you whiplash that really bother me-like Tony. That one act ignited the destruction of the character. I have no problem when they do it to someone who is leaving the show for example. If the actor is moving on, great-some totally out of character writing can add some real spice, or some really soapy twist to a story that we wouldn't have had otherwise. I guess where I'm at right now is acknowledging they have the right to do whatever they want with their characters and pairings, but it's so far removed from what I like, I've tuned out for the last year. Just YTubing a little lately when I heard the Cassadines were returning. Love Helena! It's funny how just once incident like that can be their downfall. Some u can forgive/forget but some u just can't. I loved him until the very end anyway so I guess I was one of the forgiving ones!! |
#29
2009/10/20 04:35PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
meowbowow |
Quote genhospchat I wouldn't imagine that is what was meant (I can't remember the post...did "I" say it? Geez ask me something that happened on GH twenty years ago I can tell ya but ask me something written last week and I have NO IDEA!) I would think, from what was meant by Frons's statement and what's been said here and how the board works lately, is the comment was meant that THAT PERSON wasn't dumb enough to fall for Frons's crap because they weren't enjoying it and never would, even if he says they "should because they can be trained". I don't think it would be meant for anyone who ALREADY enjoyed what was happening. If there was something going on on your screen that you were not enjoying AT ALL and knew you never would, could YOU be trained to like it? Probably not right?! You like what you like and no matter what ANY exec said (remember his words were "they will be trained to like it"), you STILL wouldn't like it, therefore "you couldn't be trained." Gosh I hope that made sense! You made plenty of sense and I for one did NOT appreciate his comment!! |
#30
2009/10/20 10:37PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
LadyCass |
What a GREAT topic. I think often times writers under estimate.... or maybe producers.... their viewers. I do think they try and 'sell' behaviors for long standing characters that do not fit. You can sell a new character however you want.... however you have to be careful when dealing with long standing characters. There are fans who understand that character and writing them differently to attract a different audience is where I think thing can get screwy. It becomes a question of are you ticking off more faithful viewers than attracting newbies? I also think that's where 'fighting' fans come in. I've noticed that fans who haven't watched the show as long as other people tend view characters differently. |
#31
2009/10/20 10:51PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
Wishing4Liason |
Quote LadyCass: What a GREAT topic. I think often times writers under estimate.... or maybe producers.... their viewers. I do think they try and 'sell' behaviors for long standing characters that do not fit. You can sell a new character however you want.... however you have to be careful when dealing with long standing characters. There are fans who understand that character and writing them differently to attract a different audience is where I think thing can get screwy. It becomes a question of are you ticking off more faithful viewers than attracting newbies? I also think that's where 'fighting' fans come in. I've noticed that fans who haven't watched the show as long as other people tend view characters differently. First I have to say...LOVELY seeing you here Cass!! Missed you tons!! Kudos to your post...That is my issue right now...To write a character that bares little resemblence to what long time viewers are used to seeing I think is risky at best UNLESS the show is giving an explanation storyline wise...But just to change a character out right, I am NOT sure the point and that is where I find when I read comments coming from the mouth of a producer..saying that we (audience) are trainable doesn't sit well...especially it being more of a blanket statement!! |
#32
2009/10/20 10:57PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
LadyCass |
The smart thing to do is to put a character in different story lines and surroundings to spice things and get life out of the character. Don't stick a character in the same scenario and change their responce. It will disconnect viewers, more commonly the long time viewers. |
#33
2009/10/20 11:02PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
Wishing4Liason |
Quote LadyCass: The smart thing to do is to put a character in different story lines and surroundings to spice things and get life out of the character. Don't stick a character in the same scenario and change their responce. It will disconnect viewers, more commonly the long time viewers. Plus I am also wondering if a shows continues on the path for too long will the character's likablity ever truly be re~stored to where it once was?? There has been a few examples given in another thread about Tony Jones...There was a long standing character that had a core and boom he did the whole kidnapping thing, and he was never the same after for viewers!! |
Modified 1 times(s), last time at:
2009/10/20 11:05PM
#34
2009/10/20 11:05PM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
LadyCass |
Quote Wishing4Liason: Plus I am also wondering if a shows continues on the path for too long with the characters likablity ever truly be re~stored to where it once was?? There has been a few examples given in another thread about Tony Jones...There was a long standing character that had a core and boom he did the whole kidnapping thing, and he was never the same after for viewers!! I think that's the danger GH is in right now. They've clearly lost viewers and pissed off fan bases. Can it be fixed if they even bothered to try at this point? I'm not holding my breathe. I'm just grateful personally that Brenda is not on the show right now.... that way they can't ruin her.  A sad day when I'm grateful my fav isn't on.
|
#35
2009/10/21 10:58AM
Re: Training/Fooling You
|
alikat |
Quote LadyCass: Quote Wishing4Liason: Plus I am also wondering if a shows continues on the path for too long with the characters likablity ever truly be re~stored to where it once was?? There has been a few examples given in another thread about Tony Jones...There was a long standing character that had a core and boom he did the whole kidnapping thing, and he was never the same after for viewers!! I think that's the danger GH is in right now. They've clearly lost viewers and pissed off fan bases. Can it be fixed if they even bothered to try at this point? I'm not holding my breathe. I'm just grateful personally that Brenda is not on the show right now.... that way they can't ruin her. A sad day when I'm grateful my fav isn't on. That's so true. It's sad when you are glad your favorite character isn't on to be ruined. One of my biggest pet peeves is when they drop a storyline and don't tie up the loose ends. Example, the counterfeit drug storyline. They truly could have done wonders with that story, even redeemed some of the ligitimacy of the PCPD with it. Even with the Corinthos Organization's "help" but still, tie up the loose ends of the story. If it's not working, tie it up sooner. Remove some fluff of the story and end it...but at least END it. Don't just drop it for viewers to be left hanging without resoulution. |
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