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Quote Longhornsfan79:

The idea of the govenment shutting down any form of media is absolutley terrifying. If we give them the right to shut down media, where will it stop? By your logic, they should also then shut down MSNBC, CNN and CBS because of their bias? Or does that only work for conservative media? No, the government should not be involved with media in any sort of way as stated in the Constitution. The founding fathers knew the importance of a free press and its ablility to keep the government in check!

Independents are growing in numbers because they are fed up with BOTH parties. More and more Independents oppose Obamas policies as well.

I would like to adress the general premise of this thread.

The Founding Fathers created this Republic because of their disagreement with Big Government. They never intended for our government to be as big and bloated as it is now. Instead of collectivism, they wanted to focus on individualism. The idea that a person could have every ability to make their own life without the help of the governement. That is the beauty of America. Only in this country can someone come from nothing to being wealthy without the help of the government. That is why many immigrants to this country are anti-government. They have lived in societies where the government is large and intrusive, that is why they came here, to get away from it. Indeed, that is why most our our ancestors came to this land in the first place.

The bigger the government is, the more it will hold you down.

The bigger the government is, the less individual freedoms you have.

The bigger the government is, the more IT will make decisions for you!

Those are not opinions but facts. Proven in every society that has adopted a centralized federal government. I ask you, is that freedom? It does not sound like it to me!

When our country was founded, the focus was more on states rights to govern, not the federal governments rights. That is what a Republic is and a Republican form of government is what is layed out in our Constitution. We have put too much focus on the federal government and the rights of states have been lost in the shuffle.

I am not anti-government, I am anti-BIG government. Government in a limited fashion is necessary. A stream-lined, efficient government will not waste the taxpayers dollars like our bloated Federal Government does now. I believe we must return to the Founding Fathers principles of smaller, less intrusive government and a focus on individualism and not collectivism.

Quote wannazach:

Exactly. If people want to shout the wrong of government being involved and using tax money then they should give up any government run program they are currently using. This should not be a pick and choose ordeal. If everyone currently using anything on these lists or any of the thousands of other government programs would stop using them THEN they might have a right to say something legit about government staying out of healthcare. As long as people are accepting the benefits of these programs they should not condemn having the government in any other program. Somehow I don't think any volunteers will come forward to give up the things they are recieving from the government now. I don't think people will stop taking food stamps or medicaid or using public schools and roads. So why do they oppose something that they are currently using and benefitting from being made available to others. As you said they need to "walk the walk". If they don't won't it for others they should not have these things for themselves.

Quote StL Cardinal Fan: Socialism....Consider what has happened in just the last seven months.

--Obama quickly removed the census from the Department of Commerce and placed it under Rahm Emanuel in the White House. He appropriated millions to the socialist advocacy group Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) to man the operation.

--He has appointed 45 czars to date (two have already departed), most unvetted and unconfirmed by Congress. These authoritarians parallel the cabinet functions, which must be vetted by Congress.

--He frightened Congress into passing a ridiculous spending bill, aka stimulus bill, that has plunged the United States into a downward spiral of debt and made us beholden to communist China.

--He nationalized financial institutions.

--He took over automobile companies, restructured their financial operations, and replaced their executives at will.

--The Democrats in Congress introduced legislation for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to begin developing central internment centers within the continental United States.

--The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) issued an official publication profiling returning vets and politcal conservatives, among others, as "terrorists."
The military began training a unit for civilian population control.

--The Democrats in Congress moved to control all the water in the United States, every drop of it.

--The Democrats in Congress moved to control all the food in the United States, not only mandating what every farmer may or may not do, but also controlling the seeds.

--Obama is seeking control of the Internet, including the authority to shut it down in time of crisis.

--The Democrats in Congress are currently seeking federal control for delivery of health care in the United States, including creation of a panel of bureaucrats who will decide who gets treated.

--Obama is encouraging American citizens to inform on their friends and neighbors who criticize his health care program to the White House.

--Obama has arrogantly used taxpayer money to pursue partisan objectives.

--The Democrats in Congress are trying to legislate mandatory national service for all young people, which would exclude Christian expression for the duration.

--Obama's Federal Communications Commission operative, Mark Lloyd, is currently seeking to seize control of radio broadcasts in the United States, with an eye to shutting down conservative talk radio. Lloyd has openly expressed his admiration for Hugo Chavez, who shut down radio stations in Venezuela that expressed dissent about his socialist programs.

--Most recently, Obama bypassed elected school boards and school district superintendents to schedule a speech to all of the country's school children, and issued lesson plans. This action is a violation of existing law, but if allowed to go unchallenged it establishes a precedent for direct federal control of education content.

And if you approve of the above....maybe you are a Socialist too.....

Quote Longhornsfan79: To Plot-Twister Re: Post #11:


I do not and many others do not consider FDR to be one of the greatest presidents. In fact, he is one of the worst when it comes to increasing the size of government. History has proven that many of the policies that FDR instituted in fact, worsened the Depression and caused it to last longer than it should have.

Yes, when our nation was founded, the US was signifigantly smaller. More states means a bigger government. However the size, scope and powers of the federal government are defined in the Constitution. The Constitution decides how big is too big.

I never said that tax dollars should not pay for roads and other infastructure and mutual defense ect ect. What I do not want my tax dollars going to are programs that that are not defined in the Constitution. Taxes are essential. Is it wrong for me to actually want to pay as little as necessary and keep some money for myself? How is that hypocrasy? Our American Revolution began over taxes. I think it is the American way to pay your fair share without being over-taxed.

Quote daisyjo: Our founding fathers could never have foreseen the world in which we live today. To say we should follow the constitution as written forever is just not feasible. Our country has to adapt to the times we are living in. I doubt our founding fathers would have liked the Patriot Act but it was put in place. The stimulus bill was needed at the time it was enacted - Obama, in the opinion of many economists, put the brakes on a depression. Sometimes government has to act in order to protect the people.

Quote Sunnyflower:

I'd be willing to bet that many would as long as the government RETURNED what they took. Of course I'm going to use "public" options because as a taxpayer, they are funded with my money! Governments don't make money, they TAKE it from others and dole it out where they see fit. So yeah, I'm going to drive on the roads or whatever else was on the list, because they are partially mine - my hard earned dollars helped pay for them.

Why not have a very low mandatory tax rate used only to pay for national security and justice. Then have a check off list indicating the other causes you would like to pay for - health care, roads, etc and essentially run them like big charities. Most everything can be provided by the private sector, so why not give us the option? Then government would have to compete with the private sector to offer the best service at the best price and we can spend our money how we see fit.

Quote Sunnyflower:

I'd be willing to bet that many would as long as the government RETURNED what they took. Of course I'm going to use "public" options because as a taxpayer, they are funded with my money! Governments don't make money, they TAKE it from others and dole it out where they see fit. So yeah, I'm going to drive on the roads or whatever else was on the list, because they are partially mine - my hard earned dollars helped pay for them.

Why not have a very low mandatory tax rate used only to pay for national security and justice. Then have a check off list indicating the other causes you would like to pay for - health care, roads, etc and essentially run them like big charities. Most everything can be provided by the private sector, so why not give us the option? Then government would have to compete with the private sector to offer the best service at the best price and we can spend our money how we see fit.

Quote Eppy: How is it done in Canada, Sunnyflower?

Quote wannazach:

Without government and taxes there would be no medicaid or medicare. What do you suggest that the disabled and elderly live on without that??? They could not see doctors, pay bills, get into any nursing facility to spent their dying days with medical attention. They could not even afford to eat. Take away medicare and we just watch people die when they are unable to work any longer? Is that what you would want for your loved ones??? Is that what we are supposed to be doing? Does no one in your family rely on medcare to survive??? Please what do you suggest we do with these people?

Quote baileysmommy:

Because the private sector is more corupt then the government and accountable to no one but their shareholders. Look into the recent histories of private contractors and the free market in Iraq and Sri Lanka...pretty eye opening.