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Gov't sponsored Health Care
Started by cats meow at 2009/06/15 09:49AMLatest post: 2009/08/03 06:34PM, Views: 1994, Replies: 155
#41
2009/07/05 04:13PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
wannazach |
Quote Eppy: I think everyone is getting a wrong idea about what government - sponsored medical care means. For example: I am currently on Medicare and pay a hefty premium (relative to income) to the medicare program for Medical and Presp. drug. Plus, at the beginning of each year, one must meet a deductible for each program (med. and presp), then one must also meet a deductible for each service and prescription. One thing I suppose you do not know is that each provider also adjusts the charges because it is medicare and that's what Medicare has negociated with providers. Just for an example: Say your bill amounted to $1,000. First off, medicare (thru negiotiations) determined that service was only worth $500.00. So, the provider esentially 'eats' the other $500.00 through adjustments. Then, after adjustment, Medicare pays 80% of the remaining 500.00 which equals $400.00 for Medicare and 20% or $100.00 for the patient to pay. It is the clout that the government has with the providers to negociate the terms of the amount the service is worth. Please believe me, Medicare is not an entitlement or handout. With preminums plus co-pays, this year, despite medicare, I have paid hundreds in co-pays. I suspect that a government sponsored health program for others would work the same way, and the goverment would have some clout to control costs as well! Many diffferent private insurance companies underwrite the Medicare program. It's not just government dollars - it still requires some financial responsibility on the part of the recepient as well. Another benefit is that there are no restrictions as to which physician you can see or which facility you may need. I think the best way to keep medical costs down is to have negociated terms and what better way to get a handle on the high medical costs than to have a huge bundle of the population involved in a cost-saving program. Also, you can keep your own insurance if you like it better, or you could move it around from job to job. What's not to like about that? A second benefit - the healthier the population, the lower the medical care costs on the front end. Overcharges have been attempted in the past from unscrupulous providers (mostly the State Medicaid Programs), but an all-encompassing, negociated, standardized pricing method would go a long way in eliminating that problem as well. Medicare isn't as bad a program as some would suggest. It will run out of money in the future if it isn't fixed and as medical costs continue to rise! PS. For paitents who have no insurance and clog up the emergency room (which is the most expensive service), having a guaranteed insurance program would probably prevent a large amount of ER visits just to see a dr. for a minor medical issue. Now if that isn't cost-saving for everyone (hosptial included), I don't know what is. ITA! There is such a problem with the private run health providers that people are getting ripped off like crazy. The same as you medicare is is how private inusurance works. For the doctors to be allowed to accept any type of private insurance they must agree to MUCH less charges than what the uninsured must pay. As a collection manager I had to take the poor and the uninsured to court and hound them for money. An uninsured person has a $5000 surgery then they have to pay that. If there is insurance and they are paying they only have to pay aproximatly 1/2 that price and then get the patients co-pay on top of that. The insurance companies are rolling in money because they have a monopoly on healthcare and they want to keep it. It is high time they had some competion and had to earn their business and charge fair and resonable amounts without so many restrictions. |
#42
2009/07/05 04:15PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
cats meow |
i have always been told competition is good |
#43
2009/07/05 05:37PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
Eppy |
Quote cats meow: i have always been told competition is good Well, I guess it is, but they (the private insurance companies) can call all their own shots. They can determine what is covered, what is not covered, who they will cover and who not. After years of paying premiums, and then be told they do not accept your medical charges is highway robbery if you ask be. They don't object to your monthly premium payments, do they? There has to be some sanity in the health system. Streamling the system would be cost effective for Doctor's and other providers in time spent on non-medical issues and they in turn would benefit in that respect.
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#44
2009/07/05 06:48PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
lovesit |
Quote francisfarmerpostlob: Quote lovesit: Quote cats meow: for those that are against gov't controlled health insurance, i would like to know what their suggestions are.....it certainly cannot be the status quo, that sure as he!! isn't working, i will be waiting to hear your ideas If they haven't already died yet I will go ask the thousands of vets who just contracted the HIV virus through gov. ran hospitals who cannot attract quality doctors or equipment. Or the guy who walked around for years with a hole in his head waiting for a qualified doctor willing to be hired by the gov. to perform his brain surgery. Or I could talk to the hundreds of thousands of people still waiting on the US gov to get up to speed and process their medical claims. I'm not against reform, just against a system where it is mostly ran by the gov. If the gov. can minimally step in and "audit" it, per se, I would go for that. Other than that, I work for big pharmaceuticals, and I know how expensive every thing has gotten. Medicine is ridiculous to generate, takes years, and every year the supplies to make them increases. I'm not saying we aren't getting screwed by the insurance companies, but there are legitimate cost increases in there. My only suggestion is for the economy as a whole to become more affordable, but I won't pretend to know how to get that accomplished. I just firmly believe I know how not to accompliosh that. No vet has contracted HIV through government run hospitals!! Making things up only makes your opposition to single payer health care seem like you have to make things up in order to justify your opinion. PLEASE stick with facts!! Here's another fact for you: if you do a simple search on this, you will find various lawsuits involving vets getting the HIV virus through their hospitals. I originally did this about 2 months ago when I heard about it, and I just did it again to make sure you could find the same lawsuits I read about. Read all the lawsuits involved with the healthcare the gov is already controlling, and then come back to me. Changing the system into something new does not make me think they can run it any better. I don't need to make anything up to back up my opinion, I have court documents and personal accounts. Also, I am all for competition. That would help drastically, I think. Just not competition from my gov. unless I could still choose my own health care system. |
#45
2009/07/05 07:31PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
Eppy |
Wow, your experience with the VA system is quite different from my friend's father's. He, in his 90's, developed a very serious health problem which took my friend back to Florida to care for him. He obtained excellent medical treatment and care at the VA hospital there, and is what could be termed, stable. She brought him back with her (Calif) to continue caring for him in her home. They had to transfer all his records, test results, x-rays, scans, etc. and Physicians reports. This was all done in an extremely timely manner and by the time they got here, everything was on record locally. All they had to do was make an appt. with a VA doctor and continue on as if there had been no break in treatment. His new doctor, a woman was so pleased to have a man of his age to care for as he is still very spry and independent. Of course, he fell in love with her, LOL! Anyway, I think a lot of GOOD things can be said of the VA too!! |
#46
2009/07/06 06:43AM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
lovesit |
Quote Eppy: Wow, your experience with the VA system is quite different from my friend's father's. He, in his 90's, developed a very serious health problem which took my friend back to Florida to care for him. He obtained excellent medical treatment and care at the VA hospital there, and is what could be termed, stable. She brought him back with her (Calif) to continue caring for him in her home. They had to transfer all his records, test results, x-rays, scans, etc. and Physicians reports. This was all done in an extremely timely manner and by the time they got here, everything was on record locally. All they had to do was make an appt. with a VA doctor and continue on as if there had been no break in treatment. His new doctor, a woman was so pleased to have a man of his age to care for as he is still very spry and independent. Of course, he fell in love with her, LOL! Anyway, I think a lot of GOOD things can be said of the VA too!! Not at all. I thought I posted this earlier, but I didn't check so here goes. I've been very lucky in my experiences with the VA. All of my grand parents have received adaquate care, not the best, but adaquate. When I go with them, although I have never been impressed with the doctor's care or interest in my grand parents, they have never been mistreated in any way. But that doesn't make me live in any less fear of what is happening as a whole to the VA system. My grand parents may have scraped by unscathed, but I have plenty of younger family members who are just getting into the system, and I worry. But absolutely, they are still providing a magnificent service. But if there were a specific hospital out there who kept getting class action lawsuits pinned against them, I would advocate a change in leadership for them as well. Curious, how long ago was this? Two weeks ago they put out a report on the extreme back log of claims waiting to be put through, but I think those claims are for the more recent vets from Irag and Afghan. My cousin is one if those waiting who is on year 5 now from first hitting his head when his parachute did not deploy. He hit his head so hard they never found his helmet. He has had bleeding of the brain for 5 years which causes chronic migraines, and is still waiting on a decision from the VA. Although not life threatening, I believe 5 years is a little too long. And he broke his leg in that same fall, and had to wait until just last year to get the required surgery! That is my only personal bad experience. The more I think about it, the more I kind of like the idea about public reviews/audits of these insurance companies. We all have a general idea of which companies are better than others, but if we really knew we could be more educated about where we want to work and live. The turnover within companies would force them to choose the most affordable coverage for their employess. |
#47
2009/07/06 07:21AM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
francisfarme... |
Quote lovesit: Quote francisfarmerpostlob: Quote lovesit: Quote cats meow: for those that are against gov't controlled health insurance, i would like to know what their suggestions are.....it certainly cannot be the status quo, that sure as he!! isn't working, i will be waiting to hear your ideas If they haven't already died yet I will go ask the thousands of vets who just contracted the HIV virus through gov. ran hospitals who cannot attract quality doctors or equipment. Or the guy who walked around for years with a hole in his head waiting for a qualified doctor willing to be hired by the gov. to perform his brain surgery. Or I could talk to the hundreds of thousands of people still waiting on the US gov to get up to speed and process their medical claims. I'm not against reform, just against a system where it is mostly ran by the gov. If the gov. can minimally step in and "audit" it, per se, I would go for that. Other than that, I work for big pharmaceuticals, and I know how expensive every thing has gotten. Medicine is ridiculous to generate, takes years, and every year the supplies to make them increases. I'm not saying we aren't getting screwed by the insurance companies, but there are legitimate cost increases in there. My only suggestion is for the economy as a whole to become more affordable, but I won't pretend to know how to get that accomplished. I just firmly believe I know how not to accompliosh that. No vet has contracted HIV through government run hospitals!! Making things up only makes your opposition to single payer health care seem like you have to make things up in order to justify your opinion. PLEASE stick with facts!! Here's another fact for you: if you do a simple search on this, you will find various lawsuits involving vets getting the HIV virus through their hospitals. I originally did this about 2 months ago when I heard about it, and I just did it again to make sure you could find the same lawsuits I read about. Read all the lawsuits involved with the healthcare the gov is already controlling, and then come back to me. Changing the system into something new does not make me think they can run it any better. I don't need to make anything up to back up my opinion, I have court documents and personal accounts. Also, I am all for competition. That would help drastically, I think. Just not competition from my gov. unless I could still choose my own health care system. I did a search and could find nothing that states any vet actually contracted HIV. I found an article about ONE VA hospital in Miami where they sent out letters for vets to get tested because of a fault they found in their procedures back in March when reviewing those procedures. Here is the article I found...if you have an article or a link that states anyone actually contracted HIV from this hospital or another VA hospital please provide it. www.justnews.com/health/18996113/detail.html MIAMI -- Officials said about 3,260 patients at a Veterans Affairs hospital in Miami should be tested for HIV, hepatitis and other diseases after receiving colonoscopies with equipment that was not properly sterilized. Hospital officials sent a letter to patients who underwent an endoscopy at the VA Medical Center in Miami in the last five years, warning them that they should undergo tests for possible infections. The VA insisted the risk of infection was minimal and only involved tubing on endoscopic equipment, not any device that actually made contact with a patient. "The likelihood is small that there could be a backflow or back-flush from a previous patient and that that could impact them, patients down the line," said Dr. John Vara, the VA chief of staff. Doctors said they came across the error during a review of procedures and have made the appropriate changes. "At the time the discrepancy was noted, the procedures with that equipment were stopped, and the equipment in question was taken out of service for review," Vara said. Timothy Chisholm, a veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps, had a colonoscopy and endoscopy done at the hospital in 2006, making him one of the thousands potentially at risk. "I think the service is great there, but this threw me for a loop. I didn't expect it coming out of the VA," Chisholm said. |
#48
2009/07/06 09:16AM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
cats meow |
i think this type of thing could happen at any hospital, please correct me if i am wrong, i thought that the plan is to eventually be able to pick either private health insurance or gov't sponsored health ins, i don't think the gov't would be running more hospitals |
#49
2009/07/06 10:23AM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
lovesit |
Quote cats meow: i think this type of thing could happen at any hospital, please correct me if i am wrong, i thought that the plan is to eventually be able to pick either private health insurance or gov't sponsored health ins, i don't think the gov't would be running more hospitals It absolutely could happen at amy hospital. If this were an isolated case, I would even say it was handled in the most efficient and respectful manner. But there has just been so much deplorable happenings lately within these hospitals, I don't see why the gov isn't trying to fix that system before they bring out another one. To me, they might bring competition to privitized insurances, but the consequences would be too great. What good does it do to be cheaper if you run such a big risk? Especially if the gov is turning a blind eye on the current situation to push yet another system on us? Why can't we first renovate the current system and restore the faith in the VA system? And as long as I can choose my own healthcare (gov sponsored or not) then other people can choose the gov sponsored one. I just do not want to lose that choice. FF - I have to go to a meeting now, but I should have time to go back and find some links. But I will say this - you were right about one thing. I should not have stated it as a fact that anyone has already contracted the virus. The situation is so new we can't really know yet as the public. My memory tells me they are still collecting names of those who wish to prosecute? |
#50
2009/07/06 11:43AM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
lovesit |
OK, I don't know what search engine you were using, but I still find a plethora of results. My only problem is choosing which one to post. |
#51
2009/07/06 01:21PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
francisfarme... |
Quote lovesit: OK, I don't know what search engine you were using, but I still find a plethora of results. My only problem is choosing which one to post. Here is one that gives all the states involved in the HIV scare, which is much more than the city of Miami. www.pritzkerlaw.com/Prostate_Biopsy/ When finding that link, I came across a new lawsuit involving over-radiated patients and cancer. www.newsinferno.com/archives/7572#more-7572 And here is a link to when the backlog started, which was 600,000 about 3 years ago. www.dralegal.org/cases/public_entities/VCS_v_VA.php Here is my take from my fresh research. Most trouble seems to have started in 2002, leading me to believe the VA was simply not prepared for the Iraq/Afghan war. OK, understandable. Not so understandable 7 years later. Especially when the gov wants us to believe they can provide quality competition to current insurance companies. Also, the VA seems to behave like a spoiled brat who always has a parent to bail them out - whenever they have a lawsuit filed against them, they pay a massive settlement out of court to deter away from the attention. This doesn't solve anything, which leads to more problems, hense the current trend of class action lawsuits. Plus, they are now $20mil in the hole b/c they just lost a computer which had all the patient files in it. That I know is an easy one to find a link to. So I still firmly believe another gov sponsored system is not he way to go, especially when it is starting to possibly infringe upon my own health. The more these hospitals and doctors get away with exposing and over-radiating and not even treating, how do I know I will not contract Hepatitis, die while waiting for my claim to go through, or get shot by a recently returned vet who did not get the mental health care he needed before he went on a wild rampage? Or get my identity stolen due to some schlep who left my info hanging out in public? I know these are all possibilities in life regardless, but when you have the chance to minimize them, you should, and we aren't even trying. But I'm done in here for a while, I know I'm starting to hog this page - sorry. I don't have the time to read them now, love, but I will this evening when I get home. Thanks for taking the time! |
#52
2009/07/06 01:36PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
Eppy |
Quote lovesit: Quote Eppy: Wow, your experience with the VA system is quite different from my friend's father's. He, in his 90's, developed a very serious health problem which took my friend back to Florida to care for him. He obtained excellent medical treatment and care at the VA hospital there, and is what could be termed, stable. She brought him back with her (Calif) to continue caring for him in her home. They had to transfer all his records, test results, x-rays, scans, etc. and Physicians reports. This was all done in an extremely timely manner and by the time they got here, everything was on record locally. All they had to do was make an appt. with a VA doctor and continue on as if there had been no break in treatment. His new doctor, a woman was so pleased to have a man of his age to care for as he is still very spry and independent. Of course, he fell in love with her, LOL! Anyway, I think a lot of GOOD things can be said of the VA too!! Not at all. I thought I posted this earlier, but I didn't check so here goes. I've been very lucky in my experiences with the VA. All of my grand parents have received adaquate care, not the best, but adaquate. When I go with them, although I have never been impressed with the doctor's care or interest in my grand parents, they have never been mistreated in any way. But that doesn't make me live in any less fear of what is happening as a whole to the VA system. My grand parents may have scraped by unscathed, but I have plenty of younger family members who are just getting into the system, and I worry. But absolutely, they are still providing a magnificent service. But if there were a specific hospital out there who kept getting class action lawsuits pinned against them, I would advocate a change in leadership for them as well. Curious, how long ago was this? Two weeks ago they put out a report on the extreme back log of claims waiting to be put through, but I think those claims are for the more recent vets from Irag and Afghan. My cousin is one if those waiting who is on year 5 now from first hitting his head when his parachute did not deploy. He hit his head so hard they never found his helmet. He has had bleeding of the brain for 5 years which causes chronic migraines, and is still waiting on a decision from the VA. Although not life threatening, I believe 5 years is a little too long. And he broke his leg in that same fall, and had to wait until just last year to get the required surgery! That is my only personal bad experience. The more I think about it, the more I kind of like the idea about public reviews/audits of these insurance companies. We all have a general idea of which companies are better than others, but if we really knew we could be more educated about where we want to work and live. The turnover within companies would force them to choose the most affordable coverage for their employess. You asked how long ago? Six weeks ago. He is scheduled to get a Shuttle bus from here to LA on Wednesday for a full body scan, ear cleaning and new hearing aid. Thank goodness they changed the day from Tuesday to Wednesday because traffic would have been horrendeous for the Michael Jackson memorial. I'm sorry for your negative experiences - especially with respect to current veterans who are not receiving timely or proper treatment. What area are you talking about? |
Modified 1 times(s), last time at:
2009/07/06 01:39PM
#53
2009/07/06 01:57PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
Eppy |
Quote cats meow: i think this type of thing could happen at any hospital, please correct me if i am wrong, i thought that the plan is to eventually be able to pick either private health insurance or gov't sponsored health ins, i don't think the gov't would be running more hospitals Absolutely cats. The government won't be running the 'health care' system - they will be sponsoring the insurance system, if you will.
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#54
2009/07/06 02:00PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
cats meow |
Quote Eppy: Quote cats meow: i think this type of thing could happen at any hospital, please correct me if i am wrong, i thought that the plan is to eventually be able to pick either private health insurance or gov't sponsored health ins, i don't think the gov't would be running more hospitals Absolutely cats. The government won't be running the 'health care' system - they will be sponsoring the insurance system, if you will. thanks, i really wasn't sure after reading some of the posts, i am not as knowledgeable as many of the posters are, i just shoot from the hip  editing to say, i didn't realize how funny i really am, look at my avi 
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Modified 1 times(s), last time at:
2009/07/06 02:02PM
#55
2009/07/06 03:20PM
Re: Gov't sponsored Health Care
|
lovesit |
Quote Eppy: Quote lovesit: Quote Eppy: Wow, your experience with the VA system is quite different from my friend's father's. He, in his 90's, developed a very serious health problem which took my friend back to Florida to care for him. He obtained excellent medical treatment and care at the VA hospital there, and is what could be termed, stable. She brought him back with her (Calif) to continue caring for him in her home. They had to transfer all his records, test results, x-rays, scans, etc. and Physicians reports. This was all done in an extremely timely manner and by the time they got here, everything was on record locally. All they had to do was make an appt. with a VA doctor and continue on as if there had been no break in treatment. His new doctor, a woman was so pleased to have a man of his age to care for as he is still very spry and independent. Of course, he fell in love with her, LOL! Anyway, I think a lot of GOOD things can be said of the VA too!! Not at all. I thought I posted this earlier, but I didn't check so here goes. I've been very lucky in my experiences with the VA. All of my grand parents have received adaquate care, not the best, but adaquate. When I go with them, although I have never been impressed with the doctor's care or interest in my grand parents, they have never been mistreated in any way. But that doesn't make me live in any less fear of what is happening as a whole to the VA system. My grand parents may have scraped by unscathed, but I have plenty of younger family members who are just getting into the system, and I worry. But absolutely, they are still providing a magnificent service. But if there were a specific hospital out there who kept getting class action lawsuits pinned against them, I would advocate a change in leadership for them as well. Curious, how long ago was this? Two weeks ago they put out a report on the extreme back log of claims waiting to be put through, but I think those claims are for the more recent vets from Irag and Afghan. My cousin is one if those waiting who is on year 5 now from first hitting his head when his parachute did not deploy. He hit his head so hard they never found his helmet. He has had bleeding of the brain for 5 years which causes chronic migraines, and is still waiting on a decision from the VA. Although not life threatening, I believe 5 years is a little too long. And he broke his leg in that same fall, and had to wait until just last year to get the required surgery! That is my only personal bad experience. The more I think about it, the more I kind of like the idea about public reviews/audits of these insurance companies. We all have a general idea of which companies are better than others, but if we really knew we could be more educated about where we want to work and live. The turnover within companies would force them to choose the most affordable coverage for their employess. You asked how long ago? Six weeks ago. He is scheduled to get a Shuttle bus from here to LA on Wednesday for a full body scan, ear cleaning and new hearing aid. Thank goodness they changed the day from Tuesday to Wednesday because traffic would have been horrendeous for the Michael Jackson memorial. I'm sorry for your negative experiences - especially with respect to current veterans who are not receiving timely or proper treatment. What area are you talking about? We are all in the Houston area. Its funny you mentioned hearing aids. My grandmother has been waiting about 6 months to see if she can get one approved (she is legally deaf). I didn't mention it b/c it really is not that big a deal - she can hear half of the time, and the other half she just says the bluntest, rudest things, so its no problem for me if she really can't hear in the first place! But the more I read, the more I interpret the back log and waiting to be more for the more recent vets. |
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