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Quote alwaysEJ:


Yeah I mentioned the buses. There were buses that could've been used, but the mayor - who is responsible at the local level for things like school buses - didn't move them until they were under water. That's how he got his name Ray 'school bus' Nagin.

Quote cats meow:

why in the world did he wait?

Quote sarahconnor:

Lovesit, i have been on this board longer than you and no one has misunderstood me prior or said so. i am mostly in the dem threads and rarely on as much these days anyway. to make the statement that you did, you must have seen all of my posts from day 1...have you? i have very little experience with you and i agree i'd like to keep it that way. there are no rules written that i must say something nice for every bash i make - if you don't like what i have to say you can simply not read it. moreover, if that's the case then why don't you say something to EJ or point her out? i see her mostly bashing the dem side..i think she holds the throne for that but i don't care b/c it's HER viewpoint. she doesn't have to answer to anyone b/c of it. i may not like her opinions or agree with them..ever....but she is entitled just as you are. there are no "rules" in which one must call out faults from all sides no matter what their stance is..i will if i see them & agree they are faults but lately i am more against rep. and it is what it is.

Quote lovesit:

I don't know if you're debating me or just elaborating, but I'll try anyhow.
Bold #1: I was simply doing just that, citing internet rumors that I flat out said I never investigated, I just heard through the grape vine. Never did I try to persuade anyone of their validity. I also wrote where he presented one before, so why should it be in question now?
Bold #2: You should know about this, b/c it is your beloved president who is trying to come into your home and run how you live. I am no smoker, and hate when I have to be in the same environment as one, but I respect their right to do so. It is up to me, not the president/gov, to find another room. So I advise you to investigate this bill, b/c his next goal is "fat" people, according to a clip I have heard. (Some clips you don't need to know if they're not used in their entirety, they are self explanatory)
Bold #3: he stated we do not have the authority to tell people what to do with their nuclear devices...if you agree with him on that...IDK what to say. If you have a child, and they are playing with another child who is putting you child in danger, do you not have the right to tell that other child to stop? I believe you do. Personally, I feel we, along with every other nation besides them, have the right to say how they use their nuclear devices. We have all seen how they value human life and their disregard for stronger nations, like us. Why do we not have the right to protect ourselves from their nuclear bomb that can now almost reach Alaska??? If you do not believe me or EJ on this one, youtube it I guess.
Last Bold: IDK if you are disagreeing that we are number 1, but all I have to say is a quote from Tony Blair, when asked why he still believes in America "There are only two forces who have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American soldier."
If that quote does not sway you, fine. Hows this - what other country has as many people as us trying to get in versus out? All the little facts are pointless for me about number one, overall, I believe we ARE number one. Our strength as a whole tells me that, not our deficit, not our hopeless government (left AND especially right), nor our death rate, survival rate, or any other statistic. Not for me, anyways. Just my two simple little reasons.

Also, please don't think there are only right wing nut jobs out there making these rumors up. There are plenty of left wing nuts, too. Don't leave anyone out. I am a conservative independent, and look at Dem and Repub web sites all day. Neither tells the whole truth, EVER.

Quote lovesit: sarahconnor - no no no, I never meant for it to come across as me saying "You don't know? Well you should have known..." I meant for it to come across as "You don't know? Then you need to look it up b/c it changes a whole lot of things"
Sorry, I continuously try to proof read my posts to make sure they can't come across as anything other than my intention, but it still happens.

Lets see...I'll start with my "misattributed quotes," How are tehy misattributd of I cite their author?

Second, about question about if I am for banned guns, etc. No, I am for no gun ban. Why? People kill people, guns don't. So I am for shutting down the person(s) acting dangerously who has the gun , or nuclear weapon, whatever the case may be.
Shutting down those evil men who have nuclear devices, IMO, can hardly be considered "invading like the world is our playground" I see it as "saving our playground." Our problem is not "US" learning how to live with them, the problem is "them" learning how to not kill every one else.

Where do we get this authority? The world gave it to us. We earned it. And we will always have it unless we give it away. And if we let evil people hold onto their nuclear "power plants," the world can easily take it away.

As for this quote,"hey are nuts - but we can't do anything unless they made a move."
I guess that is our fundamental difference. I believe we CAN do something about it. I don't believe in waiting for their inevitable strike. Don't worry, though, the president agrees with you, not me.

For this:
Please do not tell me how to think either but in regards to this I was speaking of the statement about his grandmother and where I had seen this information. I do conclude that they were right-wing "nut job" websites and never said there were not any left winged ones out there. Let’s get our facts straight before telling someone how to change their thought process shall we?
I only put that point in there b/c you always bash the right, yet I have never heard you say anything negative bad about the left, and you want fairness don't you?
I won't even try to debate the America is #1 thing. I will never see your view of down talking America, and you will not see my up talking.

So in conclusion, I never meant for it to come across as me telling you how to think about anything. I only meant to keep up the debate. I think I got it all, but if not, I'll talk to you soon!

Quote alwaysEJ: lovesit - I agree with you regarding talking down America. Yes, we have problems, but it's not as if the fact that we have problems means we have no right to ensure that rogue nations don't acquire nukes. I mean what is that logic..."Since every American doesn't have health insurance, we have no right to tell Iran they cannot build nuclear weapons." That makes no sense.

I have seen the quote attributed to Blair before...regardless of who first said it, it's a powerful sentiment.

I think George W. was right when he called Iran, Iraq, & North Korea an axis of evil. North Korea is led by a madman. North Korea recently vowed to weaponzie their plutonium -

apnews.myway.com/article/20090613/D98PO6T80.html

& has warned of nuclear war -

apnews.myway.com/article/20090614/D98QDSOO0.html.

North Korea recently sentenced two American journalists to 12 years hard labor. They are daring us to do something, make a move...but, China has their back.

I think Kim Jung Il is insane. I think Ahmedenajad has specific goals regarding Israel. I think neither of these men have any 'right' to a nuclear weapon b/c the United States has nuclear weapons. I think North Korea is a more complicated challenge, largely b/c of China. I think the situation with Iran is very clear - Israel should remain our ally, & we should ensure that Israel's enemy, Iran, does not acquire a nuke.

We have many things to deal with here at home in America. It would be great if the rest of the world could tend to their own business. If we do nothing, it is a certainty, IMO, that both Iran & North Korea will acquire & likely use nuclear weapons. I am honestly a big fan of old school CIA missions to take out rogue leaders. I regret to this day that the mission to eliminate Fidel Castro was a failure. I believe the No. 1 responsibility of the federal govt. is to keep Americans safe. Currently the feds are so busy babysitting us all I don't know how they have the time or resources to continue doing what is necessary to keep the world a safe place for freedom & democracy. I mean, what good is it for all Americans to have health insurance if half the world has nuclear warheads pointed at us?



I don't think Katrina has much to do with foreign nations acquiring nukes. It's not as if North Korea or Iran should be given a free pass for a nuke b/c the city of New Orleans fell apart after Katrina. I live in Louisiana. These were the main issues regarding Katrina:

-residents were told to leave, & many didn't, even those who had vehicles or other means of leaving...there are a lot of defiant people in New Orleans who ride out hurricanes & don't listen to warnings, & until Katrina, they'd always been ok
-Ray Nagin, the inept mayor, did not mobilize school buses at his disposal fast enough to organize evacuation of residents who had no other way out
-then governor Kathleen Blanco waited too long to cede power to the federal govt. to take control - the feds cannot intervene in a situation until that state's governor grants permission
-and, I don't for a moment think Bush did everything right, however regardless of who is president, who seriously thinks it is the job of the president of the U.S. to make sure they leave town when they're told to? I mean I would never expect that of anyone, esp. the president (or the governor, for that matter)


The moral of Katrina is this: don't count on the government, state or federal, to rescue you when times are tough.

Quote cats meow:

why in the world did he wait?

Quote sarahconnor:

*
responding back to this one in full. i got carried away on the Katrina remarks b/c they were very cold.
No one wants to see Iran with nukes and I support a variety of means to try and make sure they don't obtain them. The problem is, as we saw with Pakistan recently, there's a good chance regardless of what we do (short of an all-out invasion) they will someday obtain nukes and we should prepare for that day. Until then I suggest using diplomatic and economic pressure to delay them and boost our intelligence and special ops in the area to see if we can exploit a window of opportunity to screw their plans up further. Sorry but yelling "You bad, you evil, you no get nukes!" at the top of your lungs may make you sound like you're doing something but you're not.

as you for your statement :

I have seen the quote attributed to Blair before...regardless of who first said it, it's a powerful sentiment.

Powerful if you're into that sort of stuff, still mistaken though as it basically gives a big middle finger to the rest of the world's militaries.

So you think nations which weaponize their plutonium are mad? If you're gonna have a one rule for us, another rule for them type of "attitude", at least be open and honest about it. Duplicity is better than hypocrisy.

are you saying other nations don't have a right to nuclear weapons because the US has them? I don't see the "logic" here. I see nothing wrong with working towards preventing these countries from obtaining nuclear weapons but to claim we have a special right to them and others don't is not really fair. We have nuclear weapons because we spent a lot of money and developed them. (with the help of others) They're a strategic asset to our military. For that same reason we don't want others to have them. It has little to do with "rights" and everything to do with capabilities. BUT i don't like the idea of Iran having them myself.

in regards to the old school CIA missions.. I'm not so sure taking out enemy leaders is such a good idea because you know they may reciprocate and do a Kennedy on us. Also changing the person at the top doesn't mean their government's policies will change. Look at North Korea - Kim Jung-Il's daddy ran the country for decades much the same way and when he dies his son will do so as well. Take out the entire family and some general will take control and do the same thing. It's better to focus on the nukes than the leader.

Also the #1 responsibility of the federal government is to uphold the Constitution not keep Americans safe. That's what the President and Senators swear to when they take the oath of office. It's why Dick Cheney was full of crap when he said he swore to protect and defend the American people so all the stuff in the Constitution about due process and law can be ignored.

Nuclear proliferation vs medical coverage? I don't think it's one or the other and don't see how any reasonable person could. Also having universal health coverage would make us safer especially from a biological attack. Currently we have tens of millions of Americans uninsured. These people make the perfect pool to get a communicable disease like swine flu or worse spread and out of control. If North Korea wanted to really mess us up he'd send a few infected people across the border to the local unemployment office to cough in line for an hour and boom we've got a major pandemic in the making. People without health coverage will wait until it gets really bad (and they've been exposed to many others) before finally going to the emergency room because of lack of coverage. People with coverage would go to the doctor early and get diagnosed and treated quicker.

Quote gommie: It's not a question of his citizenship cats, it is a question of, is he native born?- one must be native born to hold the highest office in the nation-
" A Natural Born Citizen" as stated in the Constitution which would mean someone born in the Continental United States or its territory, and for some strange reason a birth certificate cannot be located by anyone for Obama even by Obama himself- similar to Bill Clinton never releasing his medical records as every president in the last century did..or John Kerry- never allowing his military records to be released even though he said he would when there was a question about just how much time he did spend in Viet Nam and what wounds did he receive to get his purple hearts that allowed him to leave Viet Nam three months after his arrival.......it seems that liberal Politicians have an awful time keeping track of their history-

Quote alwaysEJ: You mentioned Katrina as an example of our failure as a nation, basically saying we can't take care of things here - help our own - so we shouldn't always poke our noses into other nation's business (if this was not the reason you mentioned Katrina, I suppose I, like lovesit, am part of the recent trend of not comprehending your posts). If you think of Katrina as a national failure, fine. I don't - but even if I agree that as a nation, we 'failed' after Katrina, I don't understand why that means we can't take a firm stand on international matters. It's not like we lose our right to deal with the international community b/c one of our cities falls apart after a natural disaster.

I took no joy in the children who suffered & died b/c of Katrina. I was filled with rage that their parents - who are responsible for their children, not the government - did nothing to help them. I would NEVER sit around & wait out a hurricane after being told to leave, especially when my decisions effect my children. The government's main responsibility was those levees. People were told the levees might be breeched, & they still stayed. That is not the government's fault. We live in a free society & if people want to ignore warnings & have no common sense, that's not the government's fault - it is sad that children had to suffer for their parent's stupidity.

As for the fate of the ladies in North Korea, I believe the 2 journalists were over there doing something for Al Gore. Mistake No. 1. I would never go anywhere near North Korea & I certainly would not expect our current president to do anything about it were I thrown in jail. Does it mean I want those women in prison for 12 years? No.

Quote alwaysEJ:

I remember personal stories when they include explanations of why it's ok to abort a baby...Plot's posts about her adopted son were a looooong time ago. Yes, I do believe people who rape children merit the death penality, especially if they then kill the child (the S.C. agrees with me on this one). I would be ok with locking them up forever, however there is always some loon on the left who comes along & thinks they can be 'rehabilitated' - which even Plot admits is not going to happen. I have no idea what Plot's son has done, & regardless it doesn't change my view that child rapists should be put away, forever, & I wouldn't lose sleep if they were executed but currently they have to kill their victim for execution to be allowed. If you rape a child, I'm just not going to lose sleep over what happens to you.