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Abortion Doctor Murdered

Started by cats meow at 2009/06/01 05:00AM
Latest post: 2009/06/09 08:47AM, Views: 1790, Replies: 187
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#61   2009/06/04 04:33PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
cats meow
image

WICHITA, Kan. — One of the nation's few late-term abortion providers was acquitted Friday of misdemeanor charges stemming from procedures he performed, but moments after the verdict the state's medical board announced it was investigating allegations against him that are nearly identical to those the jury had rejected.

Prosecutors had alleged that Dr. George Tiller had in 2003 gotten second opinions from a doctor who was essentially an employee of his, not independent as state law requires, but a jury took only about an hour to find him not guilty of all 19 counts.

Tiller, who could have faced a year in jail for even one conviction, stared straight ahead as the verdicts were read, with one of his attorneys patting his shoulder after the decision on the final count was declared. His wife, seated across the courtroom, fought back tears and nodded. The couple declined to speak to reporters afterward.

"You would hope it would be over," said Tiller attorney Dan Monnat, "but there is a group of people who want to suppress the constitutional rights of women."

Tiller, 67, has claimed that the prosecution was politically motivated. An attorney general who opposed abortion rights began the investigation into Tiller's clinic more than four years ago, but both his successor, who filed the criminal charges, and the current attorney general support abortion rights.

it appears that he did not do illegal abortions for money

#62   2009/06/04 05:55PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
alwaysEJ
image

Tiller's acquittal really means nothing...I mean O.J. was acquitted. The man aborted around 60,000 babies & made millions of dollars doing it. Even if it every bit of it was legal, which is questionable, I don't know how he slept at night. I think some of the charges against him were his claims that some of the abortions he performed were for girls who claimed they were raped, but everyone involved refused to provide authorities with the name of their rapist. Some of the girls were underage, so there were potential statutory rape charges.

This is video of a woman who utilized Tillers' services when she was 14:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMC_70oYV8U



This is O'Reilly on Tiller's death:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5hTk_XIe8A

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/06/04 06:29PM
#63   2009/06/04 06:40PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
princesschyr...
image

Quote bigtimesoapfan:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan: Just a question then? What rights does the child growing safely(or so they think) inside his or her mommies belly have? Just curious!! I already know the answer but I still think it's crazy!! I watched a video ultrasound of an abortion once(it wasn't fake), I would never have one or encourage anyone else to! Also, My sister had 2 when she was younger and I've seen what it did to her as well, I would never stand in front a crowd of people and voice my views on them(like if they were at a clinic) but when asked my opinion I will definitley speak up!


What about women that have been a victim of rape and end up pregnant with the attackers baby. I feel they have the right to terminate! What about the woman who are drug addicts and probably won't have healthy babies. Unless people are ready to adopt all these babies that are being born. I think people should mind their business its not directly affecting you so why even care?



because innocent children are being slaughtered and the fact that a large amount feel as you do I find that sickening! This doctor Murderedover 60,000 babies while he was alive! What about them? No one cares about that right! It's not like he aborted them before 2 or 3 months he was murdering fully formed babies sometimes over the 8 month mark!! That is sick!! Your all this poor doctor, yes the man who killed him was wrong and should be punished to the fullextent of the law! but sympathy for Dr. Killer I think NOT!!!!!! Oh and by the way for all who said what he was doing was legal, some of these late term abortions(that he performed) were done in a states where it was illegal so that makes him wrong!!!!


I like how you say children like he was in there killing 5 year olds or something. Instead of worry about the choices that women are making for themselves if you are worried about children so much why don't you do something about kids that are starving to death or the 100s and 1000s of children that are getting mass murdered in Africa. Or better yet how about the millions of kids that don't have a home in this country. You don't agree with abortion okay well instead of judging others why don't you go and adopt some kids or foster some?

#64   2009/06/04 06:46PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister
image

Quote alwaysEJ: Also, in regard to this:

"I am ashamed to say that these people are championing around murders..."

Every pro-life group in the nation has condemned the murder of Dr. Tiller. If I remember correctly, we were told after 9/11 not to hold ill will toward Muslims b/c the actions of the hijackers (who were all Muslim) did not represent all Muslims. As Ann Coulter said in her weekly column:

(www.anncoulter.com/)

In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.


5 abortionists have been killed since Roe & that means all pro-lifers are murderers, but Muslims kill 3,000 Americans, & we are told this in no way represents Muslims.


Wow, that is not a very fair comparison. I don't think anyone here is saying that ALL pro lifers are murderers. The fact that they kill to support their stance is a bit confusing is all. But to tie it into ALL muslims being murderers because of a terrorist cell is like saying all catholic priests are pedophiles. Stereotyping is just wrong.

I think the main point of the OP's post was to point out the hypocrisy about murdering to protest "murder".

#65   2009/06/04 06:52PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
alwaysEJ
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote alwaysEJ: Also, in regard to this:

"I am ashamed to say that these people are championing around murders..."

Every pro-life group in the nation has condemned the murder of Dr. Tiller. If I remember correctly, we were told after 9/11 not to hold ill will toward Muslims b/c the actions of the hijackers (who were all Muslim) did not represent all Muslims. As Ann Coulter said in her weekly column:

(www.anncoulter.com/)

In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.


5 abortionists have been killed since Roe & that means all pro-lifers are murderers, but Muslims kill 3,000 Americans, & we are told this in no way represents Muslims.


Wow, that is not a very fair comparison. I don't think anyone here is saying that ALL pro lifers are murderers. The fact that they kill to support their stance is a bit confusing is all. But to tie it into ALL muslims being murderers because of a terrorist cell is like saying all catholic priests are pedophiles. Stereotyping is just wrong.

I think the main point of the OP's post was to point out the hypocrisy about murdering to protest "murder".


I don't think all Muslims are terrorists/murderers. I just think the media really shows their hand when immediately after 9/11 (3,000 Americans killed) we were told over & over that the actions of the terrorists did not represent all Muslims - which is true - & 1 abortion doctor is murdered, & Keith Olbermann, & others in the media, blame Bill O'Reilly, Fox News, & conservatives. Keith Olbermann said with a straight face that O'Reilly was responsible...granted not many people heard him based on his dismal ratings.

I understand how fruitless & idiotic it is for a 'pro-life' person to shoot an abortion doctor. I understand that...& every pro-life group immediately condemned the doctor's murder.

#66   2009/06/04 06:52PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister
image

Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan: Just a question then? What rights does the child growing safely(or so they think) inside his or her mommies belly have? Just curious!! I already know the answer but I still think it's crazy!! I watched a video ultrasound of an abortion once(it wasn't fake), I would never have one or encourage anyone else to! Also, My sister had 2 when she was younger and I've seen what it did to her as well, I would never stand in front a crowd of people and voice my views on them(like if they were at a clinic) but when asked my opinion I will definitley speak up!


What about women that have been a victim of rape and end up pregnant with the attackers baby. I feel they have the right to terminate! What about the woman who are drug addicts and probably won't have healthy babies. Unless people are ready to adopt all these babies that are being born. I think people should mind their business its not directly affecting you so why even care?



because innocent children are being slaughtered and the fact that a large amount feel as you do I find that sickening! This doctor Murderedover 60,000 babies while he was alive! What about them? No one cares about that right! It's not like he aborted them before 2 or 3 months he was murdering fully formed babies sometimes over the 8 month mark!! That is sick!! Your all this poor doctor, yes the man who killed him was wrong and should be punished to the fullextent of the law! but sympathy for Dr. Killer I think NOT!!!!!! Oh and by the way for all who said what he was doing was legal, some of these late term abortions(that he performed) were done in a states where it was illegal so that makes him wrong!!!!


I like how you say children like he was in there killing 5 year olds or something. Instead of worry about the choices that women are making for themselves if you are worried about children so much why don't you do something about kids that are starving to death or the 100s and 1000s of children that are getting mass murdered in Africa. Or better yet how about the millions of kids that don't have a home in this country. You don't agree with abortion okay well instead of judging others why don't you go and adopt some kids or foster some?


Because it doesn't matter what happens to these babies. They can be abused, homeless, addicted to drugs when they are born, developmentally disabled, living in institutions or on the street. It isn't anyone's personal responsibility to do anything for these potential murder victems except save their live....after that no one cares. And don't anyone dare to ask for welfare for these unwanted kids.

And really? Am I interpreting the other post right? That doctor was a bad man so he deserved to die? My neighbor is a bad person...can I kill her?

#67   2009/06/04 06:56PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister
image

Quote alwaysEJ:
Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote alwaysEJ: Also, in regard to this:

"I am ashamed to say that these people are championing around murders..."

Every pro-life group in the nation has condemned the murder of Dr. Tiller. If I remember correctly, we were told after 9/11 not to hold ill will toward Muslims b/c the actions of the hijackers (who were all Muslim) did not represent all Muslims. As Ann Coulter said in her weekly column:

(www.anncoulter.com/)

In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.


5 abortionists have been killed since Roe & that means all pro-lifers are murderers, but Muslims kill 3,000 Americans, & we are told this in no way represents Muslims.


Wow, that is not a very fair comparison. I don't think anyone here is saying that ALL pro lifers are murderers. The fact that they kill to support their stance is a bit confusing is all. But to tie it into ALL muslims being murderers because of a terrorist cell is like saying all catholic priests are pedophiles. Stereotyping is just wrong.

I think the main point of the OP's post was to point out the hypocrisy about murdering to protest "murder".


I don't think all Muslims are terrorists/murderers. I just think the media really shows their hand when immediately after 9/11 (3,000 Americans killed) we were told over & over that the actions of the terrorists did not represent all Muslims - which is true - & 1 abortion doctor is murdered, & Keith Olbermann, & others in the media, blame Bill O'Reilly, Fox News, & conservatives. Keith Olbermann said with a straight face that O'Reilly was responsible...granted not many people heard him based on his dismal ratings.

I understand how fruitless & idiotic it is for a 'pro-life' person to shoot an abortion doctor. I understand that...& every pro-life group immediately condemned the doctor's murder.


Granted, it is a fruitless conversation. I really don't understand the ratings thing you always think is so important, lol, I don't watch any of them, I like to think for myself.

I really am not interested in going round and round with you about this subject again (can we say dead horse lol) We disagree...OK....but really, comparing the numbers of muslims to pro life nutcases is really beneath you. I know you are better than that. That was just a low blow as well as completely incorrect.

#68   2009/06/04 07:00PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
alwaysEJ
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote alwaysEJ:
Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote alwaysEJ: Also, in regard to this:

"I am ashamed to say that these people are championing around murders..."

Every pro-life group in the nation has condemned the murder of Dr. Tiller. If I remember correctly, we were told after 9/11 not to hold ill will toward Muslims b/c the actions of the hijackers (who were all Muslim) did not represent all Muslims. As Ann Coulter said in her weekly column:

(www.anncoulter.com/)

In a country with approximately 150 million pro-lifers, five abortionists have been killed since Roe v. Wade.

In that same 36 years, more than 49 million babies have been killed by abortionists. Let's recap that halftime score, sports fans: 49 million to five.


5 abortionists have been killed since Roe & that means all pro-lifers are murderers, but Muslims kill 3,000 Americans, & we are told this in no way represents Muslims.


Wow, that is not a very fair comparison. I don't think anyone here is saying that ALL pro lifers are murderers. The fact that they kill to support their stance is a bit confusing is all. But to tie it into ALL muslims being murderers because of a terrorist cell is like saying all catholic priests are pedophiles. Stereotyping is just wrong.

I think the main point of the OP's post was to point out the hypocrisy about murdering to protest "murder".


I don't think all Muslims are terrorists/murderers. I just think the media really shows their hand when immediately after 9/11 (3,000 Americans killed) we were told over & over that the actions of the terrorists did not represent all Muslims - which is true - & 1 abortion doctor is murdered, & Keith Olbermann, & others in the media, blame Bill O'Reilly, Fox News, & conservatives. Keith Olbermann said with a straight face that O'Reilly was responsible...granted not many people heard him based on his dismal ratings.

I understand how fruitless & idiotic it is for a 'pro-life' person to shoot an abortion doctor. I understand that...& every pro-life group immediately condemned the doctor's murder.


Granted, it is a fruitless conversation. I really don't understand the ratings thing you always think is so important, lol, I don't watch any of them, I like to think for myself.

I really am not interested in going round and round with you about this subject again (can we say dead horse lol) We disagree...OK....but really, comparing the numbers of muslims to pro life nutcases is really beneath you. I know you are better than that. That was just a low blow as well as completely incorrect.


I think it's an obvious comparison - both situations where a select few commit an act that is not representative of the group (whether that be pro-life, Muslim, a racial or ethnic group, etc.) & know it is not fair to stereotype the entire group.

#69   2009/06/04 08:05PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
princesschyr...
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan: Just a question then? What rights does the child growing safely(or so they think) inside his or her mommies belly have? Just curious!! I already know the answer but I still think it's crazy!! I watched a video ultrasound of an abortion once(it wasn't fake), I would never have one or encourage anyone else to! Also, My sister had 2 when she was younger and I've seen what it did to her as well, I would never stand in front a crowd of people and voice my views on them(like if they were at a clinic) but when asked my opinion I will definitley speak up!


What about women that have been a victim of rape and end up pregnant with the attackers baby. I feel they have the right to terminate! What about the woman who are drug addicts and probably won't have healthy babies. Unless people are ready to adopt all these babies that are being born. I think people should mind their business its not directly affecting you so why even care?



because innocent children are being slaughtered and the fact that a large amount feel as you do I find that sickening! This doctor Murderedover 60,000 babies while he was alive! What about them? No one cares about that right! It's not like he aborted them before 2 or 3 months he was murdering fully formed babies sometimes over the 8 month mark!! That is sick!! Your all this poor doctor, yes the man who killed him was wrong and should be punished to the fullextent of the law! but sympathy for Dr. Killer I think NOT!!!!!! Oh and by the way for all who said what he was doing was legal, some of these late term abortions(that he performed) were done in a states where it was illegal so that makes him wrong!!!!


I like how you say children like he was in there killing 5 year olds or something. Instead of worry about the choices that women are making for themselves if you are worried about children so much why don't you do something about kids that are starving to death or the 100s and 1000s of children that are getting mass murdered in Africa. Or better yet how about the millions of kids that don't have a home in this country. You don't agree with abortion okay well instead of judging others why don't you go and adopt some kids or foster some?


Because it doesn't matter what happens to these babies. They can be abused, homeless, addicted to drugs when they are born, developmentally disabled, living in institutions or on the street. It isn't anyone's personal responsibility to do anything for these potential murder victems except save their live....after that no one cares. And don't anyone dare to ask for welfare for these unwanted kids.

And really? Am I interpreting the other post right? That doctor was a bad man so he deserved to die? My neighbor is a bad person...can I kill her?


That's exactly what I was getting at instead of focusing on abortion why don't they focus on the welfare of all the unwanted children that are born?

#70   2009/06/05 03:58AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister
image

Honey...... They don't CARE! That is the infuriating point! GRRRR And if you dare bring up the welfare point...well that is asking too much. They just want these kids starving in America....as long as they are born. Hell, we could end up impoverished like some parts of India and it would be OK because the kids were born. They are miserable, living in squalor, starving, ill, but hey, they are alive.

#71   2009/06/05 04:14AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
princesschyr...
image

Quote Plot-Twister: Honey...... They don't CARE! That is the infuriating point! GRRRR And if you dare bring up the welfare point...well that is asking too much. They just want these kids starving in America....as long as they are born. Hell, we could end up impoverished like some parts of India and it would be OK because the kids were born. They are miserable, living in squalor, starving, ill, but hey, they are alive.


ITA I bet A lot of the mothers in those impoverished countries wish they didn't have to bring MORE children into those condition. But sometimes religion beliefs and also laws prevent them from making the decison that they feel is right. You are right it is very infuriating people judging other peoples decisons drives me crazy!!! And it is funny to me how even womwen that are against abortion have had an abortion. Peoples great grandmas, grandmas, aunts, great aunts, sisters, daughters, cousin ETC have had abortions. Who cares! if people didn't know abortions were happening what difference what it make to anyones lives. NONE!! Unless your the person doing it!

#72   2009/06/05 04:49AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister
image

Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote Plot-Twister: Honey...... They don't CARE! That is the infuriating point! GRRRR And if you dare bring up the welfare point...well that is asking too much. They just want these kids starving in America....as long as they are born. Hell, we could end up impoverished like some parts of India and it would be OK because the kids were born. They are miserable, living in squalor, starving, ill, but hey, they are alive.


ITA I bet A lot of the mothers in those impoverished countries wish they didn't have to bring MORE children into those condition. But sometimes religion beliefs and also laws prevent them from making the decison that they feel is right. You are right it is very infuriating people judging other peoples decisons drives me crazy!!! And it is funny to me how even womwen that are against abortion have had an abortion. Peoples great grandmas, grandmas, aunts, great aunts, sisters, daughters, cousin ETC have had abortions. Who cares! if people didn't know abortions were happening what difference what it make to anyones lives. NONE!! Unless your the person doing it!


You know what else gets me? The way people say that they willy nilly go in and have abortions. Not all people do that. They have to live with that decision their entire life. The people I know wouldn't take it back, but they mourn what could have been in a perfect world. Except one...she was raped. To have to have had that baby would have killed her. I really think she would have killed herself after a stint in the sanitorium.

A choice implies just that....you choose something. Both have their pros and cons. You make a choice, you live with it.

And for those who say a person makes a choice to have sex and therefore takes a risk and should live with it....There are religions that prevent use of birth control. Not all people who have abortions are unwed. Further, young people have to grow up MUCH faster today than they did even 10 years ago. They experiment, they don't always know what the right thing to do is. I don't see why a person who has just hit puberty needs to be saddled with a baby that they don't want. I don't even see why they have to go and have the baby and put it up for adoption....unless, of course, they want to.

#73   2009/06/05 06:19AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
bigtimesoapfan
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan:
Quote princesschyrstin:
Quote bigtimesoapfan: Just a question then? What rights does the child growing safely(or so they think) inside his or her mommies belly have? Just curious!! I already know the answer but I still think it's crazy!! I watched a video ultrasound of an abortion once(it wasn't fake), I would never have one or encourage anyone else to! Also, My sister had 2 when she was younger and I've seen what it did to her as well, I would never stand in front a crowd of people and voice my views on them(like if they were at a clinic) but when asked my opinion I will definitley speak up!


What about women that have been a victim of rape and end up pregnant with the attackers baby. I feel they have the right to terminate! What about the woman who are drug addicts and probably won't have healthy babies. Unless people are ready to adopt all these babies that are being born. I think people should mind their business its not directly affecting you so why even care?



because innocent children are being slaughtered and the fact that a large amount feel as you do I find that sickening! This doctor Murderedover 60,000 babies while he was alive! What about them? No one cares about that right! It's not like he aborted them before 2 or 3 months he was murdering fully formed babies sometimes over the 8 month mark!! That is sick!! Your all this poor doctor, yes the man who killed him was wrong and should be punished to the fullextent of the law! but sympathy for Dr. Killer I think NOT!!!!!! Oh and by the way for all who said what he was doing was legal, some of these late term abortions(that he performed) were done in a states where it was illegal so that makes him wrong!!!!


I like how you say children like he was in there killing 5 year olds or something. Instead of worry about the choices that women are making for themselves if you are worried about children so much why don't you do something about kids that are starving to death or the 100s and 1000s of children that are getting mass murdered in Africa. Or better yet how about the millions of kids that don't have a home in this country. You don't agree with abortion okay well instead of judging others why don't you go and adopt some kids or foster some?


Because it doesn't matter what happens to these babies. They can be abused, homeless, addicted to drugs when they are born, developmentally disabled, living in institutions or on the street. It isn't anyone's personal responsibility to do anything for these potential murder victems except save their live....after that no one cares. And don't anyone dare to ask for welfare for these unwanted kids.

And really? Am I interpreting the other post right? That doctor was a bad man so he deserved to die? My neighbor is a bad person...can I kill her?




If that is aimed @ me, no I don't think it was right that this man took his life, I have said repeatedly that he(his shooter) should be punished to the full extent of the law! What happened was awful! But do I feel bad for Dr. Killer? No I don't! Did he feel sorry for all the lives he ended? I doubt it! if that makes me a bad person, so be it!
I've noticed in the last 10 years the amount of people who kill their newborns or children they sometimes get punishe but the ones that kill their wives who are pregnant most often when caught they are only punished for the actual living person they killed and the baby no one really notices (because it didn't take a breath) except for the family that has lost them! I think it's because since RVW the line between right and wrong has become so frayed! I believe that life is precious and we should protect it at all costs! I know first hand how scarry it can be when that strip turns pink. I had a plane ticket and had quit my job and was planning to pack up and leave my then boyfriend(now hubby), My husband was so angry( he all ready had full custody of a child from a previous relationship) when I told him and gave me an ultamatum get an Abortion or leave, well I choose my son's life and it all worked out! My hubby still apoligizes and tells me every once in awhile now how glad he is that I followed my beliefs! Because life without our children is no life at all! Like I said before also I know people who have had them, I know someone who had one due to skin color, or not knowing who the daddy was so rather than deal with the repercutions thay ended the life! I know one person who has been to 4 states and has had 7. All because she is too stupid to use protection. Along with those 7 she has 3 living children that came in between after her last was born she had her tubes tied( should have had that done long ago JMO) These are why Im against it I have never met anyone who had it for a medical reason or rape. These are the main resons why I'm against it! It's not birth control, people need to realize that!!

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/06/05 06:35AM
#74   2009/06/05 07:55AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
juliet
image

i agree abortion shouldn't be used as a means of birth control

but do you ever stop to think that people may be in a situation where abortion is their only choice?

also most of these women probably had no where turn like shelters etc. FYI: i was one of those people.

yes i regret having it done & i have to live with it for the rest of my life

does that make me a bad & evil person? i think not

also i asked for forgiveness & i got rewarded with a beautiful baby boy who just turned 9 months.

if my daughter would come home pregnant we would talk about the options but that would be up to her. i will still love & support her whatever she decides







#75   2009/06/05 08:08AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
lovesit
image

Quote Plot-Twister: Honey...... They don't CARE! That is the infuriating point! GRRRR And if you dare bring up the welfare point...well that is asking too much. They just want these kids starving in America....as long as they are born. Hell, we could end up impoverished like some parts of India and it would be OK because the kids were born. They are miserable, living in squalor, starving, ill, but hey, they are alive.


You agree with me about the stereotyping, yet here you are adding to it.
Instead of saying "they" why can't people say "many?" Or "some?"
Not every foster child is living in abuse, not every child living on the streets regrets living there, not every orphan is atarving, and not every pro-lifeer disregards the value of born children.

Just like not every pro-choicer is a bad person, or evil, or disregards the unborn life.

Also, many foster parents choose that carreer solely for the money they recieve per child, and many foster parents as well as adopted parents beat and abuse their children, so lets not continue to group these people as the best pro-lifers out there. We are all different, so lets acknowledge that.

I am asking this of every poster, not just plot. Sorry this looks directed at you, I am just initially using as an example.

On topic of thread, has this murderer been charged yet? Officially?

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