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Abortion Doctor Murdered
Started by cats meow at 2009/06/01 05:00AMLatest post: 2009/06/09 08:47AM, Views: 1798, Replies: 187
#111
2009/06/07 03:56PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
sarahconnor |
Quote clicquot1: Quote cats meow: i get news reports from crooks and liars almost everyday, this report is beyondo(that is my made up word), i was watching a segment of rachael maddow they sent me... an anti choice organization planned to demonstrate at a number of clinics on the day of doctor tillers funeral, these were the signs they were carrying, THE PILL KILLS, can you believe it??? now you can't prevent pregnancy, they went even further with the info they were providing, taking the pill, iud's, even sex education was the same as murder...WHTF??? these people, and i will not call them christians, are beyond scary Probably members of the Catholic Church who are strictly against ANY form of birth control and of course are anti-choice BUT they do ALLOW pedophile priests who they shipped from one parish to the next instead of trying to take care of the problem. But now, the Catholic Church(who is against gays & lesbians) says that 50% of the priests are GAY and they are the ones that are the pedophiles, when the MAJORITY of pedophiles statistically speaking has ALWAYS been straight men who will violate either sex. Priests mainly went with boys because they were easier to access(choir & altar boys). Why didn't the church with it's great wealth try to get help for these men or incarsarate them? POLITICS? oh don't get me started on the entire Catholic Priest debacle - i don't think i have the energy! LOL!!! i have never been a fan of the Catholic faith in general but what happened with those Priests and the cover up that took place was horrific. |
#112
2009/06/07 03:57PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
clicquot1 |
Oh, I forgot about the question on the table the lady has the right to have as many children as she sees fit(or that she feels GOD is giving her). The state may come in and take them away if they deem she is not taking care of them, that is not my decision as I do not work for the state. Being pro-choice does NOT mean stopping anyone that wants to have their baby from doing so, in fact MOST pro-choice think that's great and only want to be able to make that decision(hard & terrible as it may be). The pro-choice movement came about in a time when women didn't have very many rights in this country and had to still defer to their husband(i.e. a married woman in many states had to get PERMISSION from her husband to get her own "tubes tied") while a married man DID NOT have to get his wife's permission to have a vasectomy. Many women who couldn't afford to go away to have an abortion(that was illegal in the U.S.) had dirty-unsanitized back-street abortions and died because of this. Many Catholics now feel that the church has antiquated ideas concerning sex education, birth-control, and even the pro-choice movement. Whether a person has an abortion or NOT it is not up to ME to make that decision for them and the government with the Supreme Court decided the same thing. The decision to me is a very difficult one and it is a moral choice between the woman her spouse or partner or significant other and God(whatever their religion or not). Jesus taught us about love, compassion, forgiveness, and many other fine qualities. A loving and a just LORD JESUS forgives his children for many things and it is up to him to judge all of us at our time. Most Pro-choice people ARE ALSO PRO-LIFE meaning they want to ideally have as few abortions as possible but believe it is about the CHOICE and the only one we are responsible for is our OWN and not anyone else's. |
#113
2009/06/07 04:17PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
|
sarahconnor |
Quote clicquot1: Oh, I forgot about the question on the table the lady has the right to have as many children as she sees fit(or that she feels GOD is giving her). The state may come in and take them away if they deem she is not taking care of them, that is not my decision as I do not work for the state. Being pro-choice does NOT mean stopping anyone that wants to have their baby from doing so, in fact MOST pro-choice think that's great and only want to be able to make that decision(hard & terrible as it may be). The pro-choice movement came about in a time when women didn't have very many rights in this country and had to still defer to their husband(i.e. a married woman in many states had to get PERMISSION from her husband to get her own "tubes tied") while a married man DID NOT have to get his wife's permission to have a vasectomy. Many women who couldn't afford to go away to have an abortion(that was illegal in the U.S.) had dirty-unsanitized back-street abortions and died because of this. Many Catholics now feel that the church has antiquated ideas concerning sex education, birth-control, and even the pro-choice movement. Whether a person has an abortion or NOT it is not up to ME to make that decision for them and the government with the Supreme Court decided the same thing. The decision to me is a very difficult one and it is a moral choice between the woman her spouse or partner or significant other and God(whatever their religion or not). Jesus taught us about love, compassion, forgiveness, and many other fine qualities. A loving and a just LORD JESUS forgives his children for many things and it is up to him to judge all of us at our time. Most Pro-choice people ARE ALSO PRO-LIFE meaning they want to ideally have as few abortions as possible but believe it is about the CHOICE and the only one we are responsible for is our OWN and not anyone else's. I agree 100%...if someone wants to be like octo mom, sadly they do have that choice and it's not up to me to say "tie her tubes"..that goes against the entire stance of choice. i'm not even sure why that was a posed question. i may not agree with it, but she does have that choice. and yes, the state can & will remove those children if they are not taken care of. you are right....pro choice is not about advocating abortion by any means. it's about providing a female the right to choose if she wants to go through childbirth or not. i don't agree with revolving door abortions either or other things but given the alternative i think RVW is a humane & smart thing to have in place. do they think if it was outlawed it would not happen? what? it would be more gruesome than their worst nightmares. and you are right...anyone that spews hate in the name of Jesus is wrong. that is not what Christianity is about nor what it preaches. i agree with you on all counts and think you said it well...pro choice really IS about pro life b/c we want life to be in the best possible of circumstances...we don't want to see babies in dumpsters. we don't want to see unwanted children abused or left in the carseats or beaten or starved to death...it still happens but i think if there was not RVW, it would be to a higher degree sadly. we want someone to think it through and be able to provide a loving and safe place if they choose to have a baby. we care about what happens AFTER the baby is born and has taken it's first breath vs in the womb only. what happens after the womb is more important. |
#114
2009/06/08 06:42AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
bigtimesoapfan |
Quote sarahconnor: Quote bigtimesoapfan: Quote grits1976: Quote Plot-Twister: Quote grits1976: The reason I am prolife is b/c I think everyone has the right to life. I am also pro birth control pills and condoms as a form of birth control, but for a woman to have an abortion after she can feel her baby move inside her takes a special kind of cold. Using abortion as birth control after a night of mindless Fnkiug is wrong in my mind but I'm an advocate of personal responsibility (something that most liberals find offensive). Now on to the Death penalty issue... these people weren't aborted and that may be unfortunate for society. They at least had a chance at life they messed up so there are consequences. I think that therapy should be the first option but in a murder case like for example Ted Bundy, who raped and killed many women across the country, the death penalty is warranted. Mr. Bundy if memory serves was housed and supported by the state of Fla for close to a decade if not more than. 1- are you assuming that all abortions occur after the woman can feel the baby? Because that is not the truth. Also if it were a choice between my life or a potential infant....I would chose my life for my other children. I don't think that the people who get late term abortions are all eager beaver to get them. 2- I don't abhor personal responsibility. What a generalization. But in my opinion, it is part of being responsible to help out and show compassion for our fellow man (or woman) 3- "these people werent aborted and that may be unfortunate"? What? Are you saying that if there were a test that could tell if someone was going to be a serial killer they should be aborted? Interesting. Very "Minority Report" 4- You bring up Bundy...are you advocating that all death row inmates are like him? Are even the innocent but proven guilty worthy of death? Would you be happy being such collateral damage? 1. I'm by no means aying that all abortions are after 20 weeks, which is genereally when you start feeling the baby moove. Although, I know some people who have had them as late as their 8th month. By the same token I have a friend whose baby was delivered at 7 mos. and the only thing wrong w/ that baby was it weighed 4 lbs. 2. Most of the libs. I know tend to blame others for their problems and tend not to take responsibility for the mistakes they have made. example: My mil is being sued she owns a bar and she cut a guy off he went to the VFW and on his way he hit someone and killed this person, now he's suing her for his leagal bills. This person is a prominent person in our community and has taken many liberal stances. 3. No I'm not meaning that statement in the way you're taking it. But one of my liberal friends said that the Columbine assassins should've been aborted, to avoid that tragedy. 4. I think that if some one is convicted and has lost 3 appeals. That more than likely they are guilty and their sentence whatever it is should be served. Statistics show that there are very few innocents on death row , I think it's something like 2%. Here in Alabama one guy was released off of death row after serving 10 years. If someone killed a member of your family wouldn't you want them brought to justice. A question I have for you pro choice people: A woman on welfare for years that pops kids out like turds, should she be asked or told to get her plumbing fixed? I know of a woman here who had more kids than the Duggars and the state would take them in shifts, this was a poor family who lived in a 2 room shack, should she have been made to get a tubulgation or should it have been left up to her? This woman said God put her on earth to have babies and she was going to as long as she could. Thank God Grits I thought I was alone on this! I find it so funny that they talk about chioce this and choice that. What about your baby's choice. When were you deingned judge and jury for your unborn child! I agree it takes one cold hearted b%*&@c to terminate her child especially after they feel movement and not to feel remorse for the life they ended!! and by the way this 20 week thing is untrue. you can start feeling flutters around 13-16 weeks. and some feel it before that. I had an ultrasound @3 weeks because of bleeding, I thought I was in love with my baby when the stick turned pink(even though my life was a mess from the first suspicion I was pregnent I loved him)!! but seeing him on a screen @ 3 weeks into his development, that was so much more love, I could see him and while yes he was so tiny and no wheres near formed, he's my child! The thought of his life ending before it had really even started was almost unbearable! My pregnancy was a nightmare constant bed rest because of bleeding, I lost my reg. job as a lead teacher and was put in an asst teacher post. But it was worth it! My children are my life whether their timng was bad or not I can't imagine my life w/out thm!! This is my opinion only. I do think their is only 1 reason to allow a termination and that is only if the mothers life is in jeopody(for me if my child still had a chance @ life I would risk mine for them! but thats me)and Im not God so who am I to judge Im saying me personally! Yes, I believe in choice. You got that right…I believe first and foremost it is the woman’s right b/c it’s her body. Why don’t you seem to acknowledge the men that are just as responsible for a pregnancy taking place? It’s because they can hide…they are not the ones going through it. It’s a *rare* situation when the guy does not want an abortion to take place. I think it’s completely ignorant & appalling to only rake the females over the coals while not even acknowledging the male’s responsibility. Aren’t both people supposed to be pregnant?….pregnancy happens to the male that created the fetus as much as it does to the female. As for the baby’s choice, I’m sorry we’ll have to agree to disagree. At this point the baby is a fetus and is not even a viable human being. As much as I respect Christianity, i do think both science and Christianity can come together. To even state that it takes a cold hearted “blah blah blah” to terminate a pregnancy is just a cold and narrow minded statement in itself. Is that what Christianity preaches? I don’t think so. It’s forgiveness and the ability to see outside of your own opinions. I would never say anything against your viewpoints on pro life and what your choices would be in any respective situation. They are yours..they are not my business. I completely respect what you believe *but* I do not respect anyone that says something out of hate just because it is not aligned with what “they” believe. I will say this, at 18 I had no desire for children at all. If I felt anything in my stomach at any given point, I probably chalked it up to indigestion. I did not have any feelings or attachment…I was scared and wanted it all to go away. That was my thought process….i did battle with the entire right & wrong aspect of it years later but found great peace and forgiveness within my Church and no, I don’t regret my choice. I still believe a woman has the right to choose…I do not agree with anyone who uses a clinic as birth control *or* later term abortions unless it’s a medical emergency. I do not advocate abortion. But I do believe we have the right to choose. I’m glad you had your baby despite things being a mess in your life. That was the right choice for “you”…but to call someone cold for their choice is very cold in itself. I am no ones judge and a sympathetic person toward many plights a person could experience regardless if I agree with their choice. I thank God for my ability to always treat others with kindness and see many perspectives outside of my own. I had no desire to be a mother at that time. The only thing I do regret is ever getting pregnant. It was a hard lesson but I was responsible from that point on. Like I said, I respect your views and stance on pro life however I find it more difficult to respect a person that spews hate toward another person’s life & choice. May peace toward others be with you. it doesn't sound like it is. Since real Men can't have children there is no comparison. Im sick of this subject. I think your wrong bottom line! You think I am so lets agree to disagree! and I didn't mean it as bad as it sounded ( I really need to stay off on the weekends I work o/n and am tired but I wanted to check spoilers and I checked a couple threads. I mostly meant the cold hearted part for women who show no remorse, and repeat the act over and over again. I'm sorry that I said it like that that isn't how I mean it. I would be saying that about my sister if I meant it like that! Again Sorry!! |
Modified 1 times(s), last time at:
2009/06/08 06:47AM
#115
2009/06/08 06:42AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
lovesit |
Wow...I am taking no offense to anything here, but I wanted to say...I HAVE been raped, twice, in two different years, and maybe I got pregnant. I will never know b/c I took the morning after pill, after locking myself up for days and not being able to tell anyone. I also have a family member who sexually abused some other family members. I have also suffered a miscarriage. |
#116
2009/06/08 08:15AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
cats meow |
i don't think he has been formally charged yet, not sure |
#117
2009/06/08 10:20AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
Plot-Twister |
Quote lovesit: Wow...I am taking no offense to anything here, but I wanted to say...I HAVE been raped, twice, in two different years, and maybe I got pregnant. I will never know b/c I took the morning after pill, after locking myself up for days and not being able to tell anyone. I also have a family member who sexually abused some other family members. I have also suffered a miscarriage. With these experiences in my life, here is my take. Plot, your son is way too young to not have gotten counseling. If he was 40, maybe I could understand the thought process of "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"..thereby reforming him (I think you would disagree with me on that, but thats how it is for me). But he is young, and obviously should have been helped. If he has paid his debt to society (although it sounds like he still is getting punished) then I say it is now time to help him heal. I am sincerly sorry to hear these stories about how our system fails us. Older sexual offenders, I tend to feel like alwatysEJ. I say this knowing most here will strongly disagree. Do you still want me raped again? Maybe this time with a baby and the after pill doesn't work? That was very harsh. Agreeing with the death penalty does not make us all deserving of such things. Thats all. I am still sorry for you and your son. I at least see where you are coming from now on a lot of your views. (That was not typed in a demeaning manner, I don't want it to come across that way) Back to topic...can anyone answer grits question? What has the murdered been sentenced with? No, I don't want you raped again. You seem to have a human as opposed to a vulcan heart. In reference to my son I noticed things were wrong almost immediately...therapist after therapist just said he needed a hug or to draw pretty pictures (no, I am not mailigning art therapy) They would not listen to me. One christian counselor I took him to told me to send him back to his birth mom. My overall point on the pedophile subject is this: Yes it is wrong, abhorant, disgusting..I will give you all of that. My son is almost 16, he isn't going to get better. You never get better once you start to really act upon your urges. People don't tend to see the child who becomes what they become...they see the final result. So why wait until my kid is forty to kill him? He is going to be the same. See what I am saying? Get them help when the parent brings them in and actually listen to them. There should be federal housing with locks on their doors (similar to a mental institution because it is a mental disorder) so they cannot hurt others. Don't kill them because they are ill. If that were the case where will it stop? Oh, we don't like post traumatic stress victems, lets kill them. We don't like this schizophrenia thing, lets kill them. And on and on and on. I do appreciate your addressing the situation with a kindness that is not prevelant in some people who post here. I know he is a monster. But that monster is my kid. I have been fighting with governmental agencies for years and no one wants to deal with it because their constituants don't want anything to do with this disease. |
#118
2009/06/08 11:26AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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juliet |
plot |
#119
2009/06/08 11:27AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
|
juliet |
lovesit |
#120
2009/06/08 11:37AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
|
lovesit |
Quote Plot-Twister: Quote lovesit: Wow...I am taking no offense to anything here, but I wanted to say...I HAVE been raped, twice, in two different years, and maybe I got pregnant. I will never know b/c I took the morning after pill, after locking myself up for days and not being able to tell anyone. I also have a family member who sexually abused some other family members. I have also suffered a miscarriage. With these experiences in my life, here is my take. Plot, your son is way too young to not have gotten counseling. If he was 40, maybe I could understand the thought process of "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"..thereby reforming him (I think you would disagree with me on that, but thats how it is for me). But he is young, and obviously should have been helped. If he has paid his debt to society (although it sounds like he still is getting punished) then I say it is now time to help him heal. I am sincerly sorry to hear these stories about how our system fails us. Older sexual offenders, I tend to feel like alwatysEJ. I say this knowing most here will strongly disagree. Do you still want me raped again? Maybe this time with a baby and the after pill doesn't work? That was very harsh. Agreeing with the death penalty does not make us all deserving of such things. Thats all. I am still sorry for you and your son. I at least see where you are coming from now on a lot of your views. (That was not typed in a demeaning manner, I don't want it to come across that way) Back to topic...can anyone answer grits question? What has the murdered been sentenced with? No, I don't want you raped again. You seem to have a human as opposed to a vulcan heart. In reference to my son I noticed things were wrong almost immediately...therapist after therapist just said he needed a hug or to draw pretty pictures (no, I am not mailigning art therapy) They would not listen to me. One christian counselor I took him to told me to send him back to his birth mom. My overall point on the pedophile subject is this: Yes it is wrong, abhorant, disgusting..I will give you all of that. My son is almost 16, he isn't going to get better. You never get better once you start to really act upon your urges. People don't tend to see the child who becomes what they become...they see the final result. So why wait until my kid is forty to kill him? He is going to be the same. See what I am saying? Get them help when the parent brings them in and actually listen to them. There should be federal housing with locks on their doors (similar to a mental institution because it is a mental disorder) so they cannot hurt others. Don't kill them because they are ill. If that were the case where will it stop? Oh, we don't like post traumatic stress victems, lets kill them. We don't like this schizophrenia thing, lets kill them. And on and on and on. I do appreciate your addressing the situation with a kindness that is not prevelant in some people who post here. I know he is a monster. But that monster is my kid. I have been fighting with governmental agencies for years and no one wants to deal with it because their constituants don't want anything to do with this disease. For you to have to type this out brings tears to me. I am so sorry and wish I had some recommendation, or some contact person. I can only hope you have found some solace in something. I bolded the parts I wanted to address as they fit with the prior discussion. 1. "Christian" does not make you decent. I hope you filed a complaint. 2. If your child was getting the help he deserves, we will not have to worry about him at 40. Yes, the disease will always be there. But therapy is what makes them suppress the actions. The process of finding a way to suppress the disease. 3. No parent should have to feel this way about their child, but it is obvious you still love him, as you should. Your child needs help, not the needle. There is no legal reason these people are not giving some therapy to him. Is it possible you could sue? Again, I wish I had some words of wisdom, anything. But I don't. I have no idea what I would do. I can only wish you the best of luck, and would offer you prayers if I knew you would take them. |
#121
2009/06/08 11:39AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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lovesit |
Quote juliet: lovesit so sorry to hear about what happened to you. my thoughts & prayers are with you. Thank you. Actually, that was the first time I ever told anybody. The beauty of the anonymous internet. |
#122
2009/06/08 11:48AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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juliet |
lovesit |
#123
2009/06/08 11:58AM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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lovesit |
Quote juliet: lovesit no problem also this is the first time for me also about the abortion so i know how you feel.  i also know how hard it can be to talk about things without having flashbacks. i feel for you i really do
|
#124
2009/06/08 12:03PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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cats meow |
Quote lovesit: Quote juliet: lovesit so sorry to hear about what happened to you. my thoughts & prayers are with you. Thank you. Actually, that was the first time I ever told anybody. The beauty of the anonymous internet. i am sorry for you as well, once bad enough, twice, unspeakable, i would so want revenge!!! |
#125
2009/06/08 12:24PM
Re: Abortion Doctor Murdered
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lovesit |
Quote cats meow: Quote lovesit: Quote juliet: lovesit so sorry to hear about what happened to you. my thoughts & prayers are with you. Thank you. Actually, that was the first time I ever told anybody. The beauty of the anonymous internet. i am sorry for you as well, once bad enough, twice, unspeakable, i would so want revenge!!! It was and still is definately a mind trip. |
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