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Legalize Gay Marriage

Started by cats meow at 2009/05/30 09:20AM
Latest post: 2009/06/09 08:38AM, Views: 947, Replies: 88
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#51   2009/06/05 03:10PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
cats meow
image

i was just surfing the net and i came across this, i must tell you i was shocked!!!! i had no idea of the magnitude of this, makes you REALLY stop and think

www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm


On the order of 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon married couples in the U.S. Typically these are composed of about 400 state benefits and over 1,000 federal benefits. Among them are the rights to:
bullet joint parenting;
bullet joint adoption;
bullet joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
bullet status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
bullet joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
bullet dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
bullet immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
bullet inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
bullet joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
bullet inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
bullet benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
bullet spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
bullet veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
bullet joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
bullet wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bullet bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
bullet decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
bullet crime victims' recovery benefits;
bullet loss of consortium tort benefits;
bullet domestic violence protection orders;
bullet judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
bullet and more....

Most of these legal and economic benefits cannot be privately arranged or contracted for. For example, absent a legal (or civil) marriage, there is no guaranteed joint responsibility to the partner and to third parties (including children) in such areas as child support, debts to creditors, taxes, etc. In addition, private employers and institutions often give other economic privileges and other benefits (special rates or memberships) only to married couples. And, of course, when people cannot marry, they are denied all the emotional and social benefits and responsibilities of marriage as well.

let me get this straight in my mind, are all of you against gay marriage in favor or these laws?

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/06/05 03:11PM
#52   2009/06/05 04:28PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
raving
image

Quote BaileyBaby: I really do not understand why this whole Gay Marriage thread is still perking along?? What is the problem?? Many of you feel, why not?? Gay Marriage is a union between 2 people who are commited to each other.
Does it touch your life?? Then unless you are dealing with it personally why does it make a difference??
To bring in religion is stupid because it is not up to us to figure it out. It is up to the Gay couple to find their balance in life.....
I have said it before & I will say it again.... What difference does it make to everyone unless you are involved closely?? By that I mean a child or someone close who is involved in this union.
Otherwise.... It ain't nobody's business... Stay out of other people's bedrooms ! ! ! !


i was going to read this thread in its entirety....but Bailey said it so beautifully and so right on the money.....that I for once have nothing to add!

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/06/05 04:56PM
#53   2009/06/05 04:44PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
wannazach
image

Quote raving:
Quote BaileyBaby: I really do not understand why this whole Gay Marriage thread is still perking along?? What is the problem?? Many of you feel, why not?? Gay Marriage is a union between 2 people who are commited to each other.
Does it touch your life?? Then unless you are dealing with it personally why does it make a difference??
To bring in religion is stupid because it is not up to us to figure it out. It is up to the Gay couple to find their balance in life.....
I have said it before & I will say it again.... What difference does it make to everyone unless you are involved closely?? By that I mean a child or someone close who is involved in this union.
Otherwise.... It ain't nobody's business... Stay out of other people's bedrooms ! ! ! !


i was going to read this thread in its entireity....but Bailey said it so beautifully and so right on the money.....that I for once have nothing to add!


APPLAUSE!!!! APPLAUSE!!!! APPLAUSE!!!! Excellent post Bailey. Of course it has been said repetedly before in all these threads. MAYBE someone will finally listen to you. If people want to be in gay bedrooms "SO" badly they should just go to the porn store and rent a movie of it to quench their desires. Imo people so interested in others sexual preference have some real issues going on they need to deal with. I mean it is a total obsession to some people. It seems it is on their minds 24/7. Love who you want and to those that don't like it learn to mind your own business!!!! I say we bury this thread it has been beaten to death..................

#54   2009/06/05 04:58PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
raving
image

I agree wanna....but I just want to share a bumper sticker I saw a few months ago.....it said: Against gay marriage? then Don't do it!

That simplify it doesn't it?

#55   2009/06/05 05:30PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
wannazach
image

Quote raving: I agree wanna....but I just want to share a bumper sticker I saw a few months ago.....it said: Against gay marriage? then Don't do it!

That simplify it doesn't it?


Wow!!! I will take a couple thousand of those bumper stickers. I know quite a few folks that could use one. Does it come in a t-shirt too?

#56   2009/06/05 06:33PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
raving
image

Quote wannazach:
Quote raving: I agree wanna....but I just want to share a bumper sticker I saw a few months ago.....it said: Against gay marriage? then Don't do it!

That simplify it doesn't it?


Wow!!! I will take a couple thousand of those bumper stickers. I know quite a few folks that could use one. Does it come in a t-shirt too?


I dont know......maybe I should make one?

#57   2009/06/05 06:46PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
wannazach
image

Quote raving:
Quote wannazach:
Quote raving: I agree wanna....but I just want to share a bumper sticker I saw a few months ago.....it said: Against gay marriage? then Don't do it!

That simplify it doesn't it?


Wow!!! I will take a couple thousand of those bumper stickers. I know quite a few folks that could use one. Does it come in a t-shirt too?


I dont know......maybe I should make one?


Oh yeah, I forgot you can do that!

#58   2009/06/08 07:23AM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
lovesit
image

Quote Plot-Twister: Didn't mean to not mention polygomy....I am in and out watching over other people's kids! EEEK Thank goodness only 2 that are not mine are here right now. So, in reference to polygomy...if the law is just amended to "two adults" that takes care of the polygomy issue. I know many people say this will open the door to more and more issues. But as long as it is two adults, I am happy. I don't see how two adults lends itself to becoming three adults. or an adult and a pig.

Yes I did read your post and your disclaimer, however it keeps coming up and I think it is absurd.

In reference to licenses....yes, if you have a felony you cannot get a license to hunt. But you can buy a gun at a garage sale. You can buy a gun at a gun convention. And, more importantly, a person can still hunt without a license. Granted, it is against the law, but that person has the choice to break the law. A gay couple doesn't have that opportunity to break the law.

Has anyone been denied a license to wed? I don't know. It is a legit question. If they have, what were the reasons?

In the incest argument....OK, cousins whatnot...gotcha. But then you further went to solidify the medical argument. If there are medical reasons for not allowing it, why would it then be reversed because we are now recognizing gay people as equal? There is no deformaties or insanity that comes from a gay union.

In reference to your privilages vs rights argument...Am I, as a woman, only recently (since being able to vote) equal to men? I disagree with your argument. If we consider voting a responsibility (as it is often claimed) how can we exclude upstanding people from that responsibility? Look at jury duty...if you are registered to vote, you are eligible for jury duty. If a person shirks that responsibility, that is considered "bad". So, in reference to gender based marriages, apply that concept. How can privilages be responsibilities? Driving a car is a privilage. Therefore driving a car cannot be a responsibility. You have to be responsible when driving, but then again, you have a choice. I don't see how if you have a responsibility to do something that responsibility is a privilage. it implies a "must"

Further, if a person has the choice to ignore the law, in hunting, driving, etc....how is that a privilage? A homosexual couple does not have that same opportunity to make that choice and get married anyway, a privilage is usually taken away when misused (drunk driving - lose license)

OK...hope I got it all gotta chop up stuff for the tacos


Thanks for getting back with me - and with valid arguments. I did a lot of re-thinking, and I think I still believe my orginal ideas. I still think that allowing gay marriage will open the door (not guarantee) to other marriages. I still think gays deserve the privlege of marriage. Why should we heteros be the only ones to suffer ?
I said privlege...yes, I stil think these are privleges, although you made very strong points. Yes, until recently, we women were not considered equal, so we were not alloted the privelege of owning land, voting, etc. Do I agree with that? No. I think we have always been deserving of such privleges. I still think driving a car, hunting, fishing, etc all are privleges, and with privlege comes responsibility. I still believe a privlege is a responsibility.
Like, if you exceed you kill quota when hunting, you will be fined heftly. You did not fulfill your responsibility. If done multiple times, you cannot get another licese the next year. If you are deemed fit to hold the privlege of voting, that means you have been given the additional responsibility to educate yourself and vote. If you have the privlege to drive a car in our country, you must take on the responsibility to do it safely. So I guess we will agree to disagree on how a privlege can be a responsibility. About the beastiality, if you think it is absurd I think there is a remote possibility that door can be opened along the road, that is fine. I accept you viewpoint. Just don't think it is absurd b/c I am comparing it to adult marriages. That would be incorrect on your part.

Question. Maybe this needs a new thread, but how do you feel about polygamists? Do they not deserve the right to marry who they love? Just because they love multiple women who love them back, are they less deserving of marriage? Ironically, the show "Big Love" gave me a whole new perspective on this.

#59   2009/06/08 10:10AM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
Plot-Twister
image

Quote lovesit:
Quote Plot-Twister: Didn't mean to not mention polygomy....I am in and out watching over other people's kids! EEEK Thank goodness only 2 that are not mine are here right now. So, in reference to polygomy...if the law is just amended to "two adults" that takes care of the polygomy issue. I know many people say this will open the door to more and more issues. But as long as it is two adults, I am happy. I don't see how two adults lends itself to becoming three adults. or an adult and a pig.

Yes I did read your post and your disclaimer, however it keeps coming up and I think it is absurd.

In reference to licenses....yes, if you have a felony you cannot get a license to hunt. But you can buy a gun at a garage sale. You can buy a gun at a gun convention. And, more importantly, a person can still hunt without a license. Granted, it is against the law, but that person has the choice to break the law. A gay couple doesn't have that opportunity to break the law.

Has anyone been denied a license to wed? I don't know. It is a legit question. If they have, what were the reasons?

In the incest argument....OK, cousins whatnot...gotcha. But then you further went to solidify the medical argument. If there are medical reasons for not allowing it, why would it then be reversed because we are now recognizing gay people as equal? There is no deformaties or insanity that comes from a gay union.

In reference to your privilages vs rights argument...Am I, as a woman, only recently (since being able to vote) equal to men? I disagree with your argument. If we consider voting a responsibility (as it is often claimed) how can we exclude upstanding people from that responsibility? Look at jury duty...if you are registered to vote, you are eligible for jury duty. If a person shirks that responsibility, that is considered "bad". So, in reference to gender based marriages, apply that concept. How can privilages be responsibilities? Driving a car is a privilage. Therefore driving a car cannot be a responsibility. You have to be responsible when driving, but then again, you have a choice. I don't see how if you have a responsibility to do something that responsibility is a privilage. it implies a "must"

Further, if a person has the choice to ignore the law, in hunting, driving, etc....how is that a privilage? A homosexual couple does not have that same opportunity to make that choice and get married anyway, a privilage is usually taken away when misused (drunk driving - lose license)

OK...hope I got it all gotta chop up stuff for the tacos


Thanks for getting back with me - and with valid arguments. I did a lot of re-thinking, and I think I still believe my orginal ideas. I still think that allowing gay marriage will open the door (not guarantee) to other marriages. I still think gays deserve the privlege of marriage. Why should we heteros be the only ones to suffer ?I said privlege...yes, I stil think these are privleges, although you made very strong points. Yes, until recently, we women were not considered equal, so we were not alloted the privelege of owning land, voting, etc. Do I agree with that? No. I think we have always been deserving of such privleges. I still think driving a car, hunting, fishing, etc all are privleges, and with privlege comes responsibility. I still believe a privlege is a responsibility.
Like, if you exceed you kill quota when hunting, you will be fined heftly. You did not fulfill your responsibility. If done multiple times, you cannot get another licese the next year. If you are deemed fit to hold the privlege of voting, that means you have been given the additional responsibility to educate yourself and vote. If you have the privlege to drive a car in our country, you must take on the responsibility to do it safely. So I guess we will agree to disagree on how a privlege can be a responsibility. About the beastiality, if you think it is absurd I think there is a remote possibility that door can be opened along the road, that is fine. I accept you viewpoint. Just don't think it is absurd b/c I am comparing it to adult marriages. That would be incorrect on your part.

Question. Maybe this needs a new thread, but how do you feel about polygamists? Do they not deserve the right to marry who they love? Just because they love multiple women who love them back, are they less deserving of marriage? Ironically, the show "Big Love" gave me a whole new perspective on this.


I don't know why we are arguing...lol if you think gays should be allowed to share in misery (using your funny) we are on the same page...right?

#60   2009/06/08 10:27AM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
bigtimesoapfan
image

I love big love Awesome show! it shows that you can't group all of them into a group either! Heres my opinion Technichly while I don't agree with either( i feel for me it's a moral issue) and both are not for me but if you can allow one you should allow both!! if were going to sink even lower hell why not go all the way!!

#61   2009/06/08 07:39PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
clicquot1
image

Quote bigtimesoapfan: I love big love Awesome show! it shows that you can't group all of them into a group either! Heres my opinion Technichly while I don't agree with either( i feel for me it's a moral issue) and both are not for me but if you can allow one you should allow both!! if were going to sink even lower hell why not go all the way!!

Except I really don't think the polygamists want to get legally married because then they won't be able to collect monies from the states. The segments that I have seen on 60 minutes seemed to indicate this.

#62   2009/06/08 07:48PM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
alwaysEJ
image

In semi-related news, today the S.C. rejected a case challenging the military's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy -

www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98MHV380&show_article=1

#63   2009/06/09 06:38AM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
bigtimesoapfan
image

Quote clicquot1:
Quote bigtimesoapfan: I love big love Awesome show! it shows that you can't group all of them into a group either! Heres my opinion Technichly while I don't agree with either( i feel for me it's a moral issue) and both are not for me but if you can allow one you should allow both!! if were going to sink even lower hell why not go all the way!!

Except I really don't think the polygamists want to get legally married because then they won't be able to collect monies from the states. The segments that I have seen on 60 minutes seemed to indicate this.


I just meant that if you want to approve it for one group then you should approve it for both. + with Polygamy maybe if they were on the books we could keep a better eye on it and make sure some don't marry children. If they have to apply for a liscence age would be a factor(I think/or would hope) So that what happened last summer wether it was real or manipulated hopefully doesn't happen again. JMO.

#64   2009/06/09 08:38AM
Re: Legalize Gay Marriage
lovesit
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote lovesit:
Quote Plot-Twister: Didn't mean to not mention polygomy....I am in and out watching over other people's kids! EEEK Thank goodness only 2 that are not mine are here right now. So, in reference to polygomy...if the law is just amended to "two adults" that takes care of the polygomy issue. I know many people say this will open the door to more and more issues. But as long as it is two adults, I am happy. I don't see how two adults lends itself to becoming three adults. or an adult and a pig.

Yes I did read your post and your disclaimer, however it keeps coming up and I think it is absurd.

In reference to licenses....yes, if you have a felony you cannot get a license to hunt. But you can buy a gun at a garage sale. You can buy a gun at a gun convention. And, more importantly, a person can still hunt without a license. Granted, it is against the law, but that person has the choice to break the law. A gay couple doesn't have that opportunity to break the law.

Has anyone been denied a license to wed? I don't know. It is a legit question. If they have, what were the reasons?

In the incest argument....OK, cousins whatnot...gotcha. But then you further went to solidify the medical argument. If there are medical reasons for not allowing it, why would it then be reversed because we are now recognizing gay people as equal? There is no deformaties or insanity that comes from a gay union.

In reference to your privilages vs rights argument...Am I, as a woman, only recently (since being able to vote) equal to men? I disagree with your argument. If we consider voting a responsibility (as it is often claimed) how can we exclude upstanding people from that responsibility? Look at jury duty...if you are registered to vote, you are eligible for jury duty. If a person shirks that responsibility, that is considered "bad". So, in reference to gender based marriages, apply that concept. How can privilages be responsibilities? Driving a car is a privilage. Therefore driving a car cannot be a responsibility. You have to be responsible when driving, but then again, you have a choice. I don't see how if you have a responsibility to do something that responsibility is a privilage. it implies a "must"

Further, if a person has the choice to ignore the law, in hunting, driving, etc....how is that a privilage? A homosexual couple does not have that same opportunity to make that choice and get married anyway, a privilage is usually taken away when misused (drunk driving - lose license)

OK...hope I got it all gotta chop up stuff for the tacos


Thanks for getting back with me - and with valid arguments. I did a lot of re-thinking, and I think I still believe my orginal ideas. I still think that allowing gay marriage will open the door (not guarantee) to other marriages. I still think gays deserve the privlege of marriage. Why should we heteros be the only ones to suffer ?I said privlege...yes, I stil think these are privleges, although you made very strong points. Yes, until recently, we women were not considered equal, so we were not alloted the privelege of owning land, voting, etc. Do I agree with that? No. I think we have always been deserving of such privleges. I still think driving a car, hunting, fishing, etc all are privleges, and with privlege comes responsibility. I still believe a privlege is a responsibility.
Like, if you exceed you kill quota when hunting, you will be fined heftly. You did not fulfill your responsibility. If done multiple times, you cannot get another licese the next year. If you are deemed fit to hold the privlege of voting, that means you have been given the additional responsibility to educate yourself and vote. If you have the privlege to drive a car in our country, you must take on the responsibility to do it safely. So I guess we will agree to disagree on how a privlege can be a responsibility. About the beastiality, if you think it is absurd I think there is a remote possibility that door can be opened along the road, that is fine. I accept you viewpoint. Just don't think it is absurd b/c I am comparing it to adult marriages. That would be incorrect on your part.

Question. Maybe this needs a new thread, but how do you feel about polygamists? Do they not deserve the right to marry who they love? Just because they love multiple women who love them back, are they less deserving of marriage? Ironically, the show "Big Love" gave me a whole new perspective on this.


I don't know why we are arguing...lol if you think gays should be allowed to share in misery (using your funny) we are on the same page...right?


We aren't arguing. Actually, I don't think I ever took an actual stance. My belief - they should be able to marry, as well as the polygamists. But thats all. If I felt secure it would end there, I would be all for it. But I'm not, so I simply will not vote (if there was a chance for it in my state) on the issue. I am at a stand still.

And while that was a joke about them sharing in marriage misery, I was kinda being serious, too.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/06/09 08:39AM
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