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The Kissing scene

Started by ReallyNotAPrude at 2008/07/03 04:34PM
Latest post: 2008/07/16 07:57AM, Views: 3129, Replies: 181
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#71   2008/07/12 11:39AM
Re: The Kissing scene
Buffyfan428
image

If you took all of the imortal activities off of the soaps , there wouldn't be any soaps or much else to watch on TV.
In real life those things happen all around us . IT'S EVERY WHERE..IT'S EVERY WHERE!!!!!
You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend s..t doesn't happen.


Thank you for further proving the point I was conveying. You say these things happen all around us, and not to ignore them. You also say there wouldn't be any soaps or much else to watch without said content. I'm just trying to figure out why some people feel the need to single out the homosexual couple on the show as being inappropriate when much much worse things are going on. Someone just killed a pregnant woman, and then Paul buried her body to hide it, yet people feel compelled to complain about Luke and Noah kissing each other. You said it yourself these things happen all around. There are millions of gay men around the world who kiss each other, so why act so shocked/disapproving when it happens on TV?

People shouldn't pick and choose which "sins" to complain about. Luke and Noah kissing is DEFINITELY the lesser of all the "evils" going on in this show.

#72   2008/07/12 12:01PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Buffyfan428
image

Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


Hmmm... so if gays have sex our flowers will die?

This analogy is completely off-base for the subject of homosexuality and why it's "wrong".

You're just recycling the argument that men and women are made for each other... Well biologically yes, that's the case with EVERY species in order to survive. Males and females in EVERY species weren't created for each other because it was right or they're only supposed to love members of the opposite sex, it's because it's necessary for them to reproduce and survive.

However, while you've established the obvious biological reason for males and females existence, the root of your argument once again seems to be: A couple + No procreation= BAD!
And I once again ask you, should every infertile heterosexual couple in the world not be allowed to love each other because they can't reproduce? How about the millions of heterosexuals who just decide not to use their "hoses" and utilize this "divine privelege" of procreation. Why shouldn't they come under fire? I'm so sick of the whole, "We need heterosexuals to reproduce in order to survive". With 7 billion people in this world I think we're pretty well off. We won't become extinct if two people who can't reproduce decide to love each other. Besides, nowadays life can be created without the loving relationship between a man and a woman. Lesbians around the world get artificially inseminated, and Gay men are donating their sperm. They're reproducing, so what's the problem?

As stated before, without a logical answer to these questions, the problem comes down to prejudice and homophobia. If you can't say, "Gays shouldn't be together because (insert LOGICAL reason)", and that LOGICAL reason has nothing to do with prejudice, homophobia or worst of all religion (I say worst of all because you can't use your own religion as the basis of an argument for why something that affects the entire world population is wrong, because your own religion doesn't apply to the whole world), then just don't say anything at all.

#73   2008/07/12 12:03PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Willow Girl
image

Quote Buffyfan428:
If you took all of the imortal activities off of the soaps , there wouldn't be any soaps or much else to watch on TV.
In real life those things happen all around us . IT'S EVERY WHERE..IT'S EVERY WHERE!!!!!
You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend s..t doesn't happen.


Thank you for further proving the point I was conveying. You say these things happen all around us, and not to ignore them. You also say there wouldn't be any soaps or much else to watch without said content. I'm just trying to figure out why some people feel the need to single out the homosexual couple on the show as being inappropriate when much much worse things are going on. Someone just killed a pregnant woman, and then Paul buried her body to hide it, yet people feel compelled to complain about Luke and Noah kissing each other. You said it yourself these things happen all around. There are millions of gay men around the world who kiss each other, so why act so shocked/disapproving when it happens on TV?

People shouldn't pick and choose which "sins" to complain about. Luke and Noah kissing is DEFINITELY the lesser of all the "evils" going on in this show.


Since you were so nice about it , I will respond. I never singled out Luke and Noah , there are several story lines on ATWT that bother me , all the bed hopping back and forth , they change partners like it's no big deal , sex is just a game , no feelings toward each other , as they say , no strings attached ,the killing and burying of a young girl in a shallow grave and then getting married so close to it.
You are correct , Luke and Noah kissing are the lesser of all the evil things that happen on this show. That is why I read the updates and very rarely watch it anymore.
I'm hoping it will get better , it sure as hell can't get any worse in my opinion.

#74   2008/07/12 12:18PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Buffyfan428
image

Thank you for being so mature Willow. You seem like a really great person And may I say I love your icon? "I Love Lucy" is one of my favorite shows!

It's nice to see there are people in this world who can discuss disagreements in a civilized, and respectful manner, rather than to resorting to calling each other "Poopyheads" and otherwise useless names and insults.

I know that you specifically never singled out Luke and Noah. That was meant for the OP and other posters in this thread. My problem with these people is that unlike you, they don't accept that this goes on in the real world, just like everything else on this show. Just because they disagree with it doesn't mean it should be taken out of the show when without it, it wouldn't be very entertaining.

Not to sound like a broken record, but if something about a show bothers you (not "you" specifically Willow ) or offends your beliefs, just don't watch it. It really will make your life and the lives of those around you easier, rather than complaining about it.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/12 12:26PM
#75   2008/07/12 12:35PM
Re: The Kissing scene
margolovestom
image

Quote Willow Girl:
Quote margolovestom:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote BDwithaBone:
Quote Buffyfan428: "If heterosexual couples can't get it right, what makes you think homosexual couples can."

First of all, great argument. Very logical. (I'm obviously being sarcastic if you didn't guess) Second of all the success or failure of a relationship relies on the individuals participating in it. It doesn't matter whether the couple is gay, straight, bi who cares? As long as the love each other it will last. We're all human beings, and a fairly decent amount of the human population has the ability to love, so once again, the success of a relationship is reliant on the love the two share.

"Straight people don't feel the need to have a parade about their sexuality, ie Gay parade in NY."

First of all, there are no heterosexual pride parades because heterosexuals aren't and never have been discriminated against. For thousands of years gay people have been told they're wrong and evil just for loving someone of the same sex, so if they want to have a parade to let the gay and heterosexual communities know "What we're doing isn't wrong" so be it. Second of all, no one said straight people couldn't have pride parades. Go ahead! Get your parade on for all anyone cares!

"Bottom line and I state it again IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN IN A HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP CREATING LIFE THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 2 MEN OR WOMEN TO KISS ON TV. HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS WILL NEVER CREATE LIFE! AND IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN YOU OR I WOULD NOT EVEN BE HERE DISCUSSING IT."


Well, I could say if it wasn't for a man and a woman Adolf Hitler never would have been born, and I think most people would agree that in this case and others like it, the oh-so-precious lives created by heterosexual couples are sometimes better left uncreated. Wouldn't you agree?
Second of all, what about all of the infertile heterosexual couples in the world. Should they be hated because they can't procreate? No, they're still allowed to marry and love each other without being hated for it. Why? Because they're heterosexual. You're basically saying if a union between two people is made that can't result in procreation it's wrong... so do you think a case like above involving a hetero couple that's infertile is wrong? How about religious people? I would like to say I have a close relationship with God. I love God and the Bible tells me he loves me, but clearly I can't procreate with him. Is our loving relationship wrong? You would probably say no, but then that contradicts your whole argument against gays. So clearly the whole "gays can't procreate" is a very weak argument when you truly examine it, and I would suggest you don't use it anymore. Unless you can come up with another LOGICAL reason to disapprove of gays other than a deep-rooted prejudice and/or homophobia, I will have no choice but to think of you as being prejudice or homophobic.

"It may continue to be shoved in everybody's faces on TV..."

Uh, no one is strapping you to a chair, and taping your eyelids open to make you watch gay couples on TV. There is a very simple solution. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T WATCH IT! Don't try to argue, because it will always come to this point. If it bothers you to the point you have to go onto the internet and let the whole world know, then just DON'T WATCH IT! You may say, "That's not fair because good shows can be ruined by things we don't like and there's nothing we can do about it, wah wah wah." EXACTLY. Television shows don't care to and shouldn't have to cater to the opinions of the viewers. There are plenty of shows out there that have content in them I disagree with, so I choose to be practical and not watch them. Seek another program that you agree with. Get over it.

"...but it will never be right or totally accepted..."

Well obviously. I doubt that there is ANYTHING in this world that is ABSOLUTELY universally accepted. There will ALWAYS be one person who disagrees with a subject, so you're just stating the obvious.

"I don't care how many of you say it does not bother me or it's their life or their business, if you put your business out for everyone to see you better expect to handle any comment..."

So Christians who choose to go to Church and pray should be mocked and ridiculed for loving God with no problem? They're putting their business out for everyone? So it's okay right?

"AND WATCHING 2 MEN KISS ON TV WILL ALWAYS NEVER LOOK RIGHT!!!!!"

While that may be the opinion of a lot of people I know many others who have no problem with it. There are actually a lot people out there, myself included, who only watch this show or only started watching this show because of Luke and Noah. Their fanbase is huge, I would dare to say much larger than any other couple on that show. So a lot of people seem to agree two men kissing on TV looks right.

Basically you (in particular) seem to have very warped views. I respect everyone's opinions and their beliefs in what's right and wrong as long as it's a logical reason. I like to look at things logically, and when someone hates something for no LOGICAL reason, I don't really care to hear them complain.


Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


That is a completely stupid analogy. People are not hoses. Hoses don't love. Hoses don't have feelings.


Hoses is a way to make a point , great post..if you don't hook your hose up to the right connections ..your sperms and eggs want start a new life. Other words , it's like an extension cord , if you don't plug it in to the right hole..nothing happens.


It's analogies like these that show how truely ignorant anti-gay opinions are. Really comparing human sexuality to a garden hose; genius! Gay people have been here as long as heterosexuals, we here, we've always been here, and we always will be; so get used to it. And if you really are so commited to stopping homosexuality then let me suggest all heterosexuals stop having children; straight people make gay kids!


At last we agree on one thing , we straight couples do make babies , ... I didn't make anyone gay , I told you that I didn't care if a poster was gay or stright , so stop fussing at me.
I'm not butting heads with anyone on this topic again.


I'm not fusing at you. I am responding to comments that you come in the thread and make, how is that fussing? ... All we want is to be left alone and treated the same way as everyone else. We wouldn't "be in your face", if people just minded there own bussiness, and let us be. If there is a god then let him or her deal with it? People are not made gay they are born gay. And if you care to do a little research gay people have made many contributions to society, there have been lots and lots of gay people over the centuries.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/14 12:26PM
#76   2008/07/12 01:11PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Plot-Twister
image

Quote Willow Girl:
Quote Plot-Twister: Would they be called "hosologists" and instead of a fish on the back of their car, they could put a hose???? LMAO


I'm looking for a fish to put on my Lincoln Town Car .
I think this thread should be closed. It's causing to many insults .


That wasn't meant as an insult....I thought it was funny!

#77   2008/07/12 01:17PM
Re: The Kissing scene
songbird615
image

Quote Buffyfan428:
Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


Hmmm... so if gays have sex our flowers will die?

This analogy is completely off-base for the subject of homosexuality and why it's "wrong".

You're just recycling the argument that men and women are made for each other... Well biologically yes, that's the case with EVERY species in order to survive. Males and females in EVERY species weren't created for each other because it was right or they're only supposed to love members of the opposite sex, it's because it's necessary for them to reproduce and survive.

However, while you've established the obvious biological reason for males and females existence, the root of your argument once again seems to be: A couple + No procreation= BAD!
And I once again ask you, should every infertile heterosexual couple in the world not be allowed to love each other because they can't reproduce? How about the millions of heterosexuals who just decide not to use their "hoses" and utilize this "divine privelege" of procreation. Why shouldn't they come under fire? I'm so sick of the whole, "We need heterosexuals to reproduce in order to survive". With 7 billion people in this world I think we're pretty well off. We won't become extinct if two people who can't reproduce decide to love each other. Besides, nowadays life can be created without the loving relationship between a man and a woman. Lesbians around the world get artificially inseminated, and Gay men are donating their sperm. They're reproducing, so what's the problem?

As stated before, without a logical answer to these questions, the problem comes down to prejudice and homophobia. If you can't say, "Gays shouldn't be together because (insert LOGICAL reason)", and that LOGICAL reason has nothing to do with prejudice, homophobia or worst of all religion (I say worst of all because you can't use your own religion as the basis of an argument for why something that affects the entire world population is wrong, because your own religion doesn't apply to the whole world), then just don't say anything at all.


From reading what the other post wrote it sounds like they were trying to be delicate and explain it to you in a G rated way. That obviously didn't work so I'll be blunt and just tell you why gays shouldn't be. ... One more thing that is obvious is we both have our opinions and we're both convinced our opinion is the right one and neither of us is going to change that so thats that.



Edited by PlotTwister for being too graphic.

Modified 3 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/14 12:30PM
#78   2008/07/12 01:28PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Willow Girl
image

Quote margolovestom:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote margolovestom:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote BDwithaBone:
Quote Buffyfan428: "If heterosexual couples can't get it right, what makes you think homosexual couples can."

First of all, great argument. Very logical. (I'm obviously being sarcastic if you didn't guess) Second of all the success or failure of a relationship relies on the individuals participating in it. It doesn't matter whether the couple is gay, straight, bi who cares? As long as the love each other it will last. We're all human beings, and a fairly decent amount of the human population has the ability to love, so once again, the success of a relationship is reliant on the love the two share.

"Straight people don't feel the need to have a parade about their sexuality, ie Gay parade in NY."

First of all, there are no heterosexual pride parades because heterosexuals aren't and never have been discriminated against. For thousands of years gay people have been told they're wrong and evil just for loving someone of the same sex, so if they want to have a parade to let the gay and heterosexual communities know "What we're doing isn't wrong" so be it. Second of all, no one said straight people couldn't have pride parades. Go ahead! Get your parade on for all anyone cares!

"Bottom line and I state it again IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN IN A HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP CREATING LIFE THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 2 MEN OR WOMEN TO KISS ON TV. HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS WILL NEVER CREATE LIFE! AND IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN YOU OR I WOULD NOT EVEN BE HERE DISCUSSING IT."


Well, I could say if it wasn't for a man and a woman Adolf Hitler never would have been born, and I think most people would agree that in this case and others like it, the oh-so-precious lives created by heterosexual couples are sometimes better left uncreated. Wouldn't you agree?
Second of all, what about all of the infertile heterosexual couples in the world. Should they be hated because they can't procreate? No, they're still allowed to marry and love each other without being hated for it. Why? Because they're heterosexual. You're basically saying if a union between two people is made that can't result in procreation it's wrong... so do you think a case like above involving a hetero couple that's infertile is wrong? How about religious people? I would like to say I have a close relationship with God. I love God and the Bible tells me he loves me, but clearly I can't procreate with him. Is our loving relationship wrong? You would probably say no, but then that contradicts your whole argument against gays. So clearly the whole "gays can't procreate" is a very weak argument when you truly examine it, and I would suggest you don't use it anymore. Unless you can come up with another LOGICAL reason to disapprove of gays other than a deep-rooted prejudice and/or homophobia, I will have no choice but to think of you as being prejudice or homophobic.

"It may continue to be shoved in everybody's faces on TV..."

Uh, no one is strapping you to a chair, and taping your eyelids open to make you watch gay couples on TV. There is a very simple solution. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T WATCH IT! Don't try to argue, because it will always come to this point. If it bothers you to the point you have to go onto the internet and let the whole world know, then just DON'T WATCH IT! You may say, "That's not fair because good shows can be ruined by things we don't like and there's nothing we can do about it, wah wah wah." EXACTLY. Television shows don't care to and shouldn't have to cater to the opinions of the viewers. There are plenty of shows out there that have content in them I disagree with, so I choose to be practical and not watch them. Seek another program that you agree with. Get over it.

"...but it will never be right or totally accepted..."

Well obviously. I doubt that there is ANYTHING in this world that is ABSOLUTELY universally accepted. There will ALWAYS be one person who disagrees with a subject, so you're just stating the obvious.

"I don't care how many of you say it does not bother me or it's their life or their business, if you put your business out for everyone to see you better expect to handle any comment..."

So Christians who choose to go to Church and pray should be mocked and ridiculed for loving God with no problem? They're putting their business out for everyone? So it's okay right?

"AND WATCHING 2 MEN KISS ON TV WILL ALWAYS NEVER LOOK RIGHT!!!!!"

While that may be the opinion of a lot of people I know many others who have no problem with it. There are actually a lot people out there, myself included, who only watch this show or only started watching this show because of Luke and Noah. Their fanbase is huge, I would dare to say much larger than any other couple on that show. So a lot of people seem to agree two men kissing on TV looks right.

Basically you (in particular) seem to have very warped views. I respect everyone's opinions and their beliefs in what's right and wrong as long as it's a logical reason. I like to look at things logically, and when someone hates something for no LOGICAL reason, I don't really care to hear them complain.


Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


That is a completely stupid analogy. People are not hoses. Hoses don't love. Hoses don't have feelings.


Hoses is a way to make a point , great post..if you don't hook your hose up to the right connections ..your sperms and eggs want start a new life. Other words , it's like an extension cord , if you don't plug it in to the right hole..nothing happens.


It's analogies like these that show how truely ignorant anti-gay opinions are. Really comparing human sexuality to a garden hose; genius! Gay people have been here as long as heterosexuals, we here, we've always been here, and we always will be; so get used to it. And if you really are so commited to stopping homosexuality then let me suggest all heterosexuals stop having children; straight people make gay kids!


At last we agree on one thing , we straight couples do make babies , what do gay couples make? They try to blame all their hang ups on someone else. I didn't make anyone gay , I told you that I didn't care if a poster was gay or stright , so stop fussing at me.
I'm not butting heads with anyone on this topic again.


I'm not fusing at you. I am responding to comments that you come in the thread and make, how is that fussing? What hang ups and how to gay people try and blames others? All we want is to be left alone and treated the same way as everyone else. We wouldn't "be in your face", if people just minded there own bussiness, and let us be. If there is a god then let him or her deal with it? People are not made gay they are born gay. And if you care to do a little research gay people have made many contributions to society, there have been lots and lots of gay people over the centuries.


You are very wise , yes , gay people deserve to be treated with respect . I have a gay guy that tunes my piano . He is very nice , just an every day nice , hard working guy trying to make a living. I treat all people with respect. I bet you and I could get along just fine , I have nothing but respect for people that treat me with respect.
Again you are correct in saying that gay people have made many contributions over the centuries. Being gay doesn't make you different , all people deserve to be loved and respected , I know that people are born gay. Some people don't think that is true..but I do.
Maybe I was wrong in saying they blame all their problems on other people. Straight people have been known to cause a lot of them , some of them were violent in their reactions.
No , I really don't know how much back lash gays put up with , having been raised in a small town , and living in a small town now , I couldn't possibly know how rough it really is for them.
I was born in 1943 , you didn't hear much talk about gays while I was growing up.
All I know is , that I try to be nice to everyone. I treat them like I would want them to treat me.
I really hope you understand a little if not all of what I'm saying.

Modified 2 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/12 01:48PM
#79   2008/07/12 01:32PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Willow Girl
image

Quote Buffyfan428: Thank you for being so mature Willow. You seem like a really great person And may I say I love your icon? "I Love Lucy" is one of my favorite shows!

It's nice to see there are people in this world who can discuss disagreements in a civilized, and respectful manner, rather than to resorting to calling each other "Poopyheads" and otherwise useless names and insults.

I know that you specifically never singled out Luke and Noah. That was meant for the OP and other posters in this thread. My problem with these people is that unlike you, they don't accept that this goes on in the real world, just like everything else on this show. Just because they disagree with it doesn't mean it should be taken out of the show when without it, it wouldn't be very entertaining.

Not to sound like a broken record, but if something about a show bothers you (not "you" specifically Willow ) or offends your beliefs, just don't watch it. It really will make your life and the lives of those around you easier, rather than complaining about it.


Thank you for understanding .E-mail me if you want to. I'm not on this board to make someone's life miserable. I want to get along with everyone.

#80   2008/07/12 01:36PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Willow Girl
image

Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote Plot-Twister: Would they be called "hosologists" and instead of a fish on the back of their car, they could put a hose???? LMAO


I'm looking for a fish to put on my Lincoln Town Car .
I think this thread should be closed. It's causing to many insults .


That wasn't meant as an insult....I thought it was funny!


I know you didn't dear , I had some other post in mind when I said that it was causing insults, I'm sorry.

#81   2008/07/12 02:54PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Buffyfan428
image

From reading what the other post wrote it sounds like they were trying to be delicate and explain it to you in a G rated way. That obviously didn't work so I'll be blunt and just tell you why gays shouldn't be. A penis can't go into another penis and a vagina can't go into another vagina and your anus is for disposal purposes only. Now it's that clear enough for you? No, okay how about this: Penis + Vagina = Right Penis + Penis = Wrong Vagina + Vagina = Wrong. It has nothing to do with just reproduction, of course there are women who can't give birth and there are men who can't get women pregnant.
One more thing that is obvious is we both have our opinions and we're both convinced our opinion is the right one and neither of us is going to change that so thats that.

P.S. People are not born gay no more than their born straight, they are born and through their experiences choose to either be straight or gay. We have no sexual desires when we are born.


I don't need things to be explained to me in a delicate way. I'm not a child, nor am I uneducated in how men and women reproduce, and how homosexuals have intercourse. Don't patronize me, or insult my intelligence.

First of all, I never said that reproduction was the problem, that's what a number of other posters claimed was their only reservation about homosexuality. I know that there's more to the issue than reproduction.

You're right about the fact a penis can't go into a penis and vagina in vagina. That's common sense. However, there are numerous other ways to have sex, which heterosexual couples participate in, including use of the anus. The vagina and penis are used for waste disposal as well, and saying the anus is solely for doing so is your own opinion. You may not find it appealing but lots of other people in this world do. There are other ways to have sex without using penetration, and that's a FACT. Whether or not you agree that they're right or natural, is your opinion. The mouth's main purpose isn't for sexual reasons, but heterosexuals use it just as much as homosexuals do to have sex.

You're trying to argue a point with your opinion. You can't argue an opinion, by citing your opinion as proof. Whether or not you agree with it, it's no one else's business who you sleep with but yours. I doubt that your life is being affected by homosexuals being together, and I'm sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you who you sleep with or the way you do it is unnatural, any more than a gay person would. If everyone would just mind their own business and let people live their lives the way they wish, there wouldn't be all of this prejudice, and certainly there wouldn't be all of the disagreement there is in the world.

As you said, we both have our opinions. You have a right to believe in what you want to, but if you want to have an intelligent debate over something, you need to use FACTS to prove your thesis. Opinions don't count.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/12 03:03PM
#82   2008/07/12 03:51PM
Re: The Kissing scene
margolovestom
image

Quote Willow Girl:
Quote margolovestom:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote margolovestom:
Quote Willow Girl:
Quote Plot-Twister:
Quote BDwithaBone:
Quote Buffyfan428: "If heterosexual couples can't get it right, what makes you think homosexual couples can."

First of all, great argument. Very logical. (I'm obviously being sarcastic if you didn't guess) Second of all the success or failure of a relationship relies on the individuals participating in it. It doesn't matter whether the couple is gay, straight, bi who cares? As long as the love each other it will last. We're all human beings, and a fairly decent amount of the human population has the ability to love, so once again, the success of a relationship is reliant on the love the two share.

"Straight people don't feel the need to have a parade about their sexuality, ie Gay parade in NY."

First of all, there are no heterosexual pride parades because heterosexuals aren't and never have been discriminated against. For thousands of years gay people have been told they're wrong and evil just for loving someone of the same sex, so if they want to have a parade to let the gay and heterosexual communities know "What we're doing isn't wrong" so be it. Second of all, no one said straight people couldn't have pride parades. Go ahead! Get your parade on for all anyone cares!

"Bottom line and I state it again IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN IN A HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP CREATING LIFE THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 2 MEN OR WOMEN TO KISS ON TV. HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS WILL NEVER CREATE LIFE! AND IF IT WASN'T FOR A MAN AND A WOMAN YOU OR I WOULD NOT EVEN BE HERE DISCUSSING IT."


Well, I could say if it wasn't for a man and a woman Adolf Hitler never would have been born, and I think most people would agree that in this case and others like it, the oh-so-precious lives created by heterosexual couples are sometimes better left uncreated. Wouldn't you agree?
Second of all, what about all of the infertile heterosexual couples in the world. Should they be hated because they can't procreate? No, they're still allowed to marry and love each other without being hated for it. Why? Because they're heterosexual. You're basically saying if a union between two people is made that can't result in procreation it's wrong... so do you think a case like above involving a hetero couple that's infertile is wrong? How about religious people? I would like to say I have a close relationship with God. I love God and the Bible tells me he loves me, but clearly I can't procreate with him. Is our loving relationship wrong? You would probably say no, but then that contradicts your whole argument against gays. So clearly the whole "gays can't procreate" is a very weak argument when you truly examine it, and I would suggest you don't use it anymore. Unless you can come up with another LOGICAL reason to disapprove of gays other than a deep-rooted prejudice and/or homophobia, I will have no choice but to think of you as being prejudice or homophobic.

"It may continue to be shoved in everybody's faces on TV..."

Uh, no one is strapping you to a chair, and taping your eyelids open to make you watch gay couples on TV. There is a very simple solution. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T WATCH IT! Don't try to argue, because it will always come to this point. If it bothers you to the point you have to go onto the internet and let the whole world know, then just DON'T WATCH IT! You may say, "That's not fair because good shows can be ruined by things we don't like and there's nothing we can do about it, wah wah wah." EXACTLY. Television shows don't care to and shouldn't have to cater to the opinions of the viewers. There are plenty of shows out there that have content in them I disagree with, so I choose to be practical and not watch them. Seek another program that you agree with. Get over it.

"...but it will never be right or totally accepted..."

Well obviously. I doubt that there is ANYTHING in this world that is ABSOLUTELY universally accepted. There will ALWAYS be one person who disagrees with a subject, so you're just stating the obvious.

"I don't care how many of you say it does not bother me or it's their life or their business, if you put your business out for everyone to see you better expect to handle any comment..."

So Christians who choose to go to Church and pray should be mocked and ridiculed for loving God with no problem? They're putting their business out for everyone? So it's okay right?

"AND WATCHING 2 MEN KISS ON TV WILL ALWAYS NEVER LOOK RIGHT!!!!!"

While that may be the opinion of a lot of people I know many others who have no problem with it. There are actually a lot people out there, myself included, who only watch this show or only started watching this show because of Luke and Noah. Their fanbase is huge, I would dare to say much larger than any other couple on that show. So a lot of people seem to agree two men kissing on TV looks right.

Basically you (in particular) seem to have very warped views. I respect everyone's opinions and their beliefs in what's right and wrong as long as it's a logical reason. I like to look at things logically, and when someone hates something for no LOGICAL reason, I don't really care to hear them complain.


Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


That is a completely stupid analogy. People are not hoses. Hoses don't love. Hoses don't have feelings.


Hoses is a way to make a point , great post..if you don't hook your hose up to the right connections ..your sperms and eggs want start a new life. Other words , it's like an extension cord , if you don't plug it in to the right hole..nothing happens.


It's analogies like these that show how truely ignorant anti-gay opinions are. Really comparing human sexuality to a garden hose; genius! Gay people have been here as long as heterosexuals, we here, we've always been here, and we always will be; so get used to it. And if you really are so commited to stopping homosexuality then let me suggest all heterosexuals stop having children; straight people make gay kids!


At last we agree on one thing , we straight couples do make babies , what do gay couples make? They try to blame all their hang ups on someone else. I didn't make anyone gay , I told you that I didn't care if a poster was gay or stright , so stop fussing at me.
I'm not butting heads with anyone on this topic again.


I'm not fusing at you. I am responding to comments that you come in the thread and make, how is that fussing? What hang ups and how to gay people try and blames others? All we want is to be left alone and treated the same way as everyone else. We wouldn't "be in your face", if people just minded there own bussiness, and let us be. If there is a god then let him or her deal with it? People are not made gay they are born gay. And if you care to do a little research gay people have made many contributions to society, there have been lots and lots of gay people over the centuries.


You are very wise , yes , gay people deserve to be treated with respect . I have a gay guy that tunes my piano . He is very nice , just an every day nice , hard working guy trying to make a living. I treat all people with respect. I bet you and I could get along just fine , I have nothing but respect for people that treat me with respect.
Again you are correct in saying that gay people have made many contributions over the centuries. Being gay doesn't make you different , all people deserve to be loved and respected , I know that people are born gay. Some people don't think that is true..but I do.
Maybe I was wrong in saying they blame all their problems on other people. Straight people have been known to cause a lot of them , some of them were violent in their reactions.
No , I really don't know how much back lash gays put up with , having been raised in a small town , and living in a small town now , I couldn't possibly know how rough it really is for them.
I was born in 1943 , you didn't hear much talk about gays while I was growing up.
All I know is , that I try to be nice to everyone. I treat them like I would want them to treat me.
I really hope you understand a little if not all of what I'm saying.


I am begining to see that although we have some difference of opinion, we are not all that different in our opinions. I guess I should not lump all who disagree into the same boat. I get it now thanks!

#83   2008/07/12 04:42PM
Re: The Kissing scene
Oakdalefan
image

Quote songbird615:
Quote Buffyfan428:
Let me see if I can help you visualize why nuke is wrong. Okay picture yourself outside watering your flowers and your water hose won't reach all your flowers so you add another piece of hose, how do you do it? Do you connect both male ends? do you connect both female ends? or do you connect the male and female end together? Well if you want the water to flow through the hose and to water your flowers so they don't die then you connect the female and male ends together because there designed to fit. So we have women who have a vagina and men have a penis which fits into the vagina and allows life to flow. Now I've tried to give you the best visual I could, I hope it helps.


Hmmm... so if gays have sex our flowers will die?

This analogy is completely off-base for the subject of homosexuality and why it's "wrong".

You're just recycling the argument that men and women are made for each other... Well biologically yes, that's the case with EVERY species in order to survive. Males and females in EVERY species weren't created for each other because it was right or they're only supposed to love members of the opposite sex, it's because it's necessary for them to reproduce and survive.

However, while you've established the obvious biological reason for males and females existence, the root of your argument once again seems to be: A couple + No procreation= BAD!
And I once again ask you, should every infertile heterosexual couple in the world not be allowed to love each other because they can't reproduce? How about the millions of heterosexuals who just decide not to use their "hoses" and utilize this "divine privelege" of procreation. Why shouldn't they come under fire? I'm so sick of the whole, "We need heterosexuals to reproduce in order to survive". With 7 billion people in this world I think we're pretty well off. We won't become extinct if two people who can't reproduce decide to love each other. Besides, nowadays life can be created without the loving relationship between a man and a woman. Lesbians around the world get artificially inseminated, and Gay men are donating their sperm. They're reproducing, so what's the problem?

As stated before, without a logical answer to these questions, the problem comes down to prejudice and homophobia. If you can't say, "Gays shouldn't be together because (insert LOGICAL reason)", and that LOGICAL reason has nothing to do with prejudice, homophobia or worst of all religion (I say worst of all because you can't use your own religion as the basis of an argument for why something that affects the entire world population is wrong, because your own religion doesn't apply to the whole world), then just don't say anything at all.


From reading what the other post wrote it sounds like they were trying to be delicate and explain it to you in a G rated way. That obviously didn't work so I'll be blunt and just tell you why gays shouldn't be. ...It has nothing to do with just reproduction, of course there are women who can't give birth and there are men who can't get women pregnant.
One more thing that is obvious is we both have our opinions and we're both convinced our opinion is the right one and neither of us is going to change that so thats that.

....


Actually, they are. Your points here are so illogical. You bring up sexual organs but you say, "It has nothing to do with just reproduction..."

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2008/07/14 12:32PM
#84   2008/07/12 04:58PM
Re: The Kissing scene
beckygirl69
image

Well I don't care what any of you say the only sexual organs on the human body is the penis and vagina. The mouth and anus are not sexual organs and should not be used as such. You have a point the penis and vagina are used for disposal but they are also sexual organs. I still don't see what facts or proof you have given to show that gay sex is ok just as you've said the other poster didn't show any facts that is wasn't ok. It appears to me you both are stating opinions.

#85   2008/07/12 07:34PM
Re: The Kissing scene
margolovestom
image

Quote beckygirl69: Well I don't care what any of you say the only sexual organs on the human body is the penis and vagina. The mouth and anus are not sexual organs and should not be used as such. You have a point the penis and vagina are used for disposal but they are also sexual organs. I still don't see what facts or proof you have given to show that gay sex is ok just as you've said the other poster didn't show any facts that is wasn't ok. It appears to me you both are stating opinions.


But you see once again you have missed the point, and I bet this will just keep going round and round...
There are heterosexuals and homosexuals that have oral and anal sex.
There are heterosexuals and homosexuals who do not engage in penetration of any kind when they have sex. There is more to sex then just intercourse. Now opinions are that homosexuality is wrong or that it isn't wrong. I have to ask though of those who think that it is wrong, who made you the boss of the world? Who are you to determine if someone's sexual life is right or wrong?

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