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Standing by Janet......

Started by nonniepat at 2009/09/16 11:44AM
Latest post: 2009/10/05 01:45PM, Views: 1550, Replies: 94
|« « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » »| page:
#41   2009/09/23 11:28AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote lttlangel420:
Quote hello goodbye: All I can say is WHATEVER.. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will answer in the end for my choices just as you will. I am NOT hiding behind Christianity are God. I choose to believe in something good. Maybe some of you should give it a try. Maybe the world would be a better place.



I respect everyone's religious beliefs, though I myself am not religious. I don't believe in god, heaven, hell, etc. I also don't believe I will have to answer for my choices when I die. I don't believe there is one "God" that tells us "you were good, you go to heave, you were bad, you go to hell".


And this is to everyone, I don't understand people who are religious who like to pick and choice what they live by. Some say abortion is wrong because the bible says so or something like that. But they let others get away with committing other sins, premarital sex, greed, stealing, taking the lords name in vain, etc are as bad.

I don't understand how someone can be say a Cristian, and not believe in or follow everything they stand by.

1st its not a you were good you go to Heaven you were bad you go to hell. It doesn't work that way. You actually have to accept that you are a sinner, repent of your sins, ask God's forgiveness and for Jesus to dwell in you. Even the greatest of all Christians (the 12 desiples) were sinners to the day they died.

While some say there are some sins worse than others, the bible says sin is sin. BUT it also lists some that God says in an abomination.
There are 7... (after all, what we think is right and wrong doesn't really matter, ulimately it is what God declars as sin as a Christian)
1. A proud look (pride has been the downfall of many great men)
2. A lying tongue
3. Hands that shed innocent blood (abortion?)
4. A heart that devises wicked ideas
5. Feet that are swift in running to mischief. (deliberately commiting sins or doing wrong?)
6. A false winess that speaks lies. (false religion maybe?)
7. Those who sow discord among brethren. (gossip?)

There are others such as homesexuality and bestiality, as well as cross dressing (he says men are to dress as men and women to dress as women). Just as sacrifices and prayers of wicked people (those who attempt to worship God and pray to Him but reject His word). Prayers of a repentant sinner are always welcomed.

BUT if you commit these sins it doesn't mean you can't be forgiven. But once you ask for that forgiveness and continue in the sin, you will be dealt with by God.

Taht was just some quick thoughts on Christian view points.

#42   2009/09/23 11:31AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote NoNuke4me:
Quote nonniepat:
Quote Muffin_Top:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!


You have a very good point. I would like to see this subject approached from another point of view, rather than the ususal two points of view being presented: EITHER "Her body, her choice" or "Religious beliefs".

Please consider abortion as a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, whether you are faithful/religious or not.

I fully support "Your body, your choice" when no other body is attached to your body. Use birth control, have protected sex before marriage (if you want), be a mom or don't be a mom--you can be 'fulfilled' either way.

BUT, human procreation calls for the female to host the unborn human. The baby you have at nine months, take home, offer for adoption, or abort is the same HUMAN BEING in different developmental stages.

Once a person is pregnant, they are no longer chosing for only their body. Who supports the human rights of all human beings?


I really like the open and honest debate that is going on here.

But finally someone who realizes my point in all of this. Yes, I get the "religious" and the "choice" sides but there is one "side" that trumps them all and Muffin_Top got it........ Human Life. All human life is precious and yes once a woman decides to have sex she is making the choice for her own body alone but once she gets pregnant then that choice now effects 2 bodies - 2 lives - 2 human lives. Human rights - including the unborn- are before the religious and choice sides.

I know everyone has their own opinion so keep up the great respectful debate. This is a good thread.


Well if it's two human lives and one doesn't want to be apart of the other one's life anymore they should part ways. If you get married should you be forced to stay with that person for the rest of your life because you married him/her? No you made a mistake you get a divorce and you move on. If this is a human life then it should be able to live on it's on, otherwise it is a part of the body like a tumor, or an ingrown toenail and the owner of the body decides what stays and goes.
Suppose your child, parent or sibling needs a kidney, should you be forced to give up one of yours?? Sure most people would be all to happy to donate a kidney, but you shouldn't be forced to save a human life, you should do it because you want to and if Liberty doesn't want to then she shouldn't be forced too. This is America and we have to right to choose if we want a triple whopper, if we want to eat nothing but veggies, if we want to give birth or not.



your kidding right? I mean seriously you really don't think this way do you????

#43   2009/09/23 11:36AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
EVSCNB
image

[quote]Quote hello goodbye: [quote]Quote NoNuke4me: [quote]Quote nonniepat: [quote]Quote Muffin_Top: [quote]Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

You have a very good point. I would like to see this subject approached from another point of view, rather than the ususal two points of view being presented: EITHER "Her body, her choice" or "Religious beliefs".

Please consider abortion as a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, whether you are faithful/religious or not.

I fully support "Your body, your choice" when no other body is attached to your body. Use birth control, have protected sex before marriage (if you want), be a mom or don't be a mom--you can be 'fulfilled' either way.

BUT, human procreation calls for the female to host the unborn human. The baby you have at nine months, take home, offer for adoption, or abort is the same HUMAN BEING in different developmental stages.

Once a person is pregnant, they are no longer chosing for only their body. Who supports the human rights of all human beings?[/quote]

I really like the open and honest debate that is going on here.

But finally someone who realizes my point in all of this. Yes, I get the "religious" and the "choice" sides but there is one "side" that trumps them all and Muffin_Top got it........ Human Life. All human life is precious and yes once a woman decides to have sex she is making the choice for her own body alone but once she gets pregnant then that choice now effects 2 bodies - 2 lives - 2 human lives. Human rights - including the unborn- are before the religious and choice sides.

I know everyone has their own opinion so keep up the great respectful debate. This is a good thread.[/quote]

Well if it's two human lives and one doesn't want to be apart of the other one's life anymore they should part ways. If you get married should you be forced to stay with that person for the rest of your life because you married him/her? No you made a mistake you get a divorce and you move on. If this is a human life then it should be able to live on it's on, otherwise it is a part of the body like a tumor, or an ingrown toenail and the owner of the body decides what stays and goes.
Suppose your child, parent or sibling needs a kidney, should you be forced to give up one of yours?? Sure most people would be all to happy to donate a kidney, but you shouldn't be forced to save a human life, you should do it because you want to and if Liberty doesn't want to then she shouldn't be forced too. This is America and we have to right to choose if we want a triple whopper, if we want to eat nothing but veggies, if we want to give birth or not.[/quote ]

This is not the same thing at all. How could you compare any of this to killing an unborn baby? You divorce you spouse, NOT kill them. You give a kidney, not cut it out and dance on it. So you eat vegetables, you do not go slaughter a cow because you don't eat it.

You are talking about a baby that is growing and developing. How can you be so quick to kill (slaughter) it? She could give it up for adoption. Janet could raise it until she is ready. There are so many more options. She can still go to college. Her life is not over.[/quote]

It is not a baby. It is a fetus. It cannot survive outside of the mother's body.

#44   2009/09/23 11:39AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
EVSCNB
image

Quote GLfan85:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's so great!! Now make that embryo live outside the woman at 22 days. Too many people want to make decisions for everyone else without hearing the persons wishes. 'Choice' you have one and so does the character and everyone else.



I'm sorry but not only are you missing the point, but that is just stupid! The point is, IT IS HUMAN regardless of when it can live out side the body!



So it is stupid because I don't agree with the fact that the woman does indeed have a choice or that a heartbeat at 22 weeks doesn't change my stance? What is stupid is that you don't recognize choice. Then again, you may if it suits you.

#45   2009/09/23 11:57AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)



I know it sounds harsh, but realistically a 4-5 week old fetus is the size of an apple seed. Having an abortion at that stage is not near as bad as if she were further along.
It's not like they would be ripping a full formed baby out of her. Again harsh but that's just the facts.
RARELY do teens give up their babies after they are born, once they see them they decide to keep them regardless of their inability to care for them. I have a family member that gave up her baby, and at 16 I was in the delivery room with a friend and watched her child come into this world.
The first baby I ever saw born. She gave her baby up, and it was hard...as for my cousin she regrets it every single day of her life!!
You are very lucky to have been a great mother to your son, and that you went on to have a great life...that simply isn't the case for most teens.
I would also like to add, I have a good friend that is in the process of adopting her granddaughter, who she has cared for since the day she was born. Her son was 16 and the mom didn't have the skills or desire to be a "mom" at this time.
So you see I do see what you are saying, but I will say it again. It's the individuals choice, and the longer Janet waits, the bigger that baby gets.(I'm aware this is not real LOL) Janet is responsible for visiting her beliefs on her daughter, to get her to do what SHE wants. So in turn I think Janet is making things worse.
A good parent ASKS their child what they want, and supports them regardless of their own feelings or beliefs.

JMO


Tammer, true enough and I agree. But funny thing about the law, in everything EXCEPT abortion, you are not considered responsible enough to make decisions in most states until you are 18. Some are 17 and even fewer are 16. Good thing Liby isn't 15! How can a teen who made the assnine decision to 1 get drunk and 2 have unprotected sex, be responsible enough and of sound mind enough or even capable enough of making that kind of decision. Its not like we are talking about paying tax's here. We are talking about a human life.

by soap time, she has to be at least any where from 6 to 8 weeks pregnant. at three weeks there is already a heart. So it will be much more than just the size of an apple seed. At 10 weeks the basic brain structure is complete and it is 1.25 to 1.68 inches in size. Also at 8 weeks is the end of the embrionic period. But by the way Jannet is talking she has to be at least 12 to 13 weeks, close to the end of the 1st trimester of 14 weeks.

#46   2009/09/23 12:02PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

WK 1 of preg: Your first week of pregnancy is actually begins the first day of your last period.

WK 2:At the beginning of week 2 the egg implants into the uterine wall

WK 3:While this embryo doesn’t look anything like a fetus or a baby at this point, the brain, backbone, and the cardio-vascular system – complete with a beating heart are beginning to form!

WK4:At this point your embryo has three main brain sections: the forebrain, middle brain and hindbrain. Parts of the eye, including the pigment and optical stalk are visible. The beginning of a mouth with tongue is distinguishable and the thyroid and lymphatic system is forming. Lung buds are forming and the heart is quite large, with circulation well established. The first thin layer of skin is formed and buds that will become arms and legs are becoming visible.
**At this point you may take a home pregnancy test!!!!!

WK5: The first system to form, the circulatory system is now functioning with all four chambers of the heart present.

WK6:The first movements will take place halfway through this week. Nostrils are beginning to form and the neural tube that connects the brain and spinal cord will close this week. The skeleton is formed. The appendix is in place and intestines are developing. At this point, brain hemispheres have formed and brain waves can be recorded. The heart has four separate chambers and the heartbeat will soon become more regular.

A cluster of cells that will become the reproductive organs has formed and, if you are having a son, a penis will form. Mammary glands begin to mature and the pituitary, which controls the growth hormones for other organs, begins to form.

WK7: The embryo is about the size of a small bean – about ½ an inch long this week. If you could reach the baby and try to tickle its little nose it would jump and respond to your touch now!

The head is very oversized and all of the facial features are becoming more defined. The eyes are formed.Eyelids are beginning to form. Ear indentations and the semicircular canals begin to form in the inner ear to help with balance. The brain is close to completion at this point and is growing at an amazing rate.The gonads are formed.

GET THE PICTURE? It is a baby.

Modified 2 times(s), last time at: 2009/09/23 12:20PM
#47   2009/09/23 12:26PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote EVSCNB:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's so great!! Now make that embryo live outside the woman at 22 days. Too many people want to make decisions for everyone else without hearing the persons wishes. 'Choice' you have one and so does the character and everyone else.



I'm sorry but not only are you missing the point, but that is just stupid! The point is, IT IS HUMAN regardless of when it can live out side the body!



So it is stupid because I don't agree with the fact that the woman does indeed have a choice or that a heartbeat at 22 weeks doesn't change my stance? What is stupid is that you don't recognize choice. Then again, you may if it suits you.



No what is stupid is the insenuation that just because it is 22 weeks means its not human and it doesn't have rights. And if you bother to read any of my other post you will see I DO believe in choice! What I DON'T believe in is dismissing an "embryo" just because it can't live outside the body! What is even more stupid is the idea that just because it is YOUR opinion that WE have to agree with you!

#48   2009/09/23 01:47PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)



I know it sounds harsh, but realistically a 4-5 week old fetus is the size of an apple seed. Having an abortion at that stage is not near as bad as if she were further along.
It's not like they would be ripping a full formed baby out of her. Again harsh but that's just the facts.
RARELY do teens give up their babies after they are born, once they see them they decide to keep them regardless of their inability to care for them. I have a family member that gave up her baby, and at 16 I was in the delivery room with a friend and watched her child come into this world.
The first baby I ever saw born. She gave her baby up, and it was hard...as for my cousin she regrets it every single day of her life!!
You are very lucky to have been a great mother to your son, and that you went on to have a great life...that simply isn't the case for most teens.
I would also like to add, I have a good friend that is in the process of adopting her granddaughter, who she has cared for since the day she was born. Her son was 16 and the mom didn't have the skills or desire to be a "mom" at this time.
So you see I do see what you are saying, but I will say it again. It's the individuals choice, and the longer Janet waits, the bigger that baby gets.(I'm aware this is not real LOL) Janet is responsible for visiting her beliefs on her daughter, to get her to do what SHE wants. So in turn I think Janet is making things worse.
A good parent ASKS their child what they want, and supports them regardless of their own feelings or beliefs.

JMO


Tammer, true enough and I agree. But funny thing about the law, in everything EXCEPT abortion, you are not considered responsible enough to make decisions in most states until you are 18. Some are 17 and even fewer are 16. Good thing Liby isn't 15! How can a teen who made the assnine decision to 1 get drunk and 2 have unprotected sex, be responsible enough and of sound mind enough or even capable enough of making that kind of decision. Its not like we are talking about paying tax's here. We are talking about a human life.

by soap time, she has to be at least any where from 6 to 8 weeks pregnant. at three weeks there is already a heart. So it will be much more than just the size of an apple seed. At 10 weeks the basic brain structure is complete and it is 1.25 to 1.68 inches in size. Also at 8 weeks is the end of the embrionic period. But by the way Jannet is talking she has to be at least 12 to 13 weeks, close to the end of the 1st trimester of 14 weeks.


Firstly, here in Canada age of consent is 14.
Just because Liberty got drunk and had unprotected sex it doesn't mean she isn't of sound mind or is a to childish to make her own decisions...that is ridiculous! She is a well educated teen, even grown well educated adults make bad choices. Should their rights to choose be stripped away? Of course not.
I think it an asinine decision to make ANY teen have a baby! It's just wrong.

Now on to the "fetus" info. You are wrong about a 3 week old fetus' size.
4 weeks: The ball of cells – now called an embryo – growing inside your uterus (womb) is the size of an apple seed.

5 weeks: Your baby is about a quarter of a centimeter long and looks more like a tadpole than a human.
6 weeks: Your baby is the size of a lentil this week.
7 weeks: Now about 1cm long, the size of a grape.
8 weeks: Now measures approximately 1.6cm.

Although these are indeed facts, the discussion is not about whether or not this will indeed be a baby, it's about the freedom to choose if you want to have said baby.
As I said, abortion is not for me personally...however I would not presume to think what I want should be what an unwed teen mom wants.
Fact is abortion is out there, I for one am grateful. Would you expect a teen to give birth to a baby if she were raped or abused..even if it were a family member...say her father?
I would hope the heck not.
I respect your opinions, but I think everyone is losing focus. What I'm saying is Liberty is a very capable teen, and able to make her own choices..Janet prolonging it make the fetus get bigger and bigger and then well then I have a whole new perspective on the subject.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/09/23 01:56PM
#49   2009/09/23 01:57PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
calliope
image

Quote hello goodbye: WK 1 of preg: Your first week of pregnancy is actually begins the first day of your last period.

WK 2:At the beginning of week 2 the egg implants into the uterine wall

WK 3:While this embryo doesn’t look anything like a fetus or a baby at this point, the brain, backbone, and the cardio-vascular system – complete with a beating heart are beginning to form!

WK4:At this point your embryo has three main brain sections: the forebrain, middle brain and hindbrain. Parts of the eye, including the pigment and optical stalk are visible. The beginning of a mouth with tongue is distinguishable and the thyroid and lymphatic system is forming. Lung buds are forming and the heart is quite large, with circulation well established. The first thin layer of skin is formed and buds that will become arms and legs are becoming visible.
**At this point you may take a home pregnancy test!!!!!

WK5: The first system to form, the circulatory system is now functioning with all four chambers of the heart present.

WK6:The first movements will take place halfway through this week. Nostrils are beginning to form and the neural tube that connects the brain and spinal cord will close this week. The skeleton is formed. The appendix is in place and intestines are developing. At this point, brain hemispheres have formed and brain waves can be recorded. The heart has four separate chambers and the heartbeat will soon become more regular.

A cluster of cells that will become the reproductive organs has formed and, if you are having a son, a penis will form. Mammary glands begin to mature and the pituitary, which controls the growth hormones for other organs, begins to form.

WK7: The embryo is about the size of a small bean – about ½ an inch long this week. If you could reach the baby and try to tickle its little nose it would jump and respond to your touch now!

The head is very oversized and all of the facial features are becoming more defined. The eyes are formed.Eyelids are beginning to form. Ear indentations and the semicircular canals begin to form in the inner ear to help with balance. The brain is close to completion at this point and is growing at an amazing rate.The gonads are formed.

GET THE PICTURE? It is a baby.


How can your first week of pregnancy begin the first day of your last period? If you were pregnant you wouldn't have a period.

#50   2009/09/23 02:32PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

The Doctor's go by the your last period. If it makes you feel better, you can go by week 3 as the wk 1 of pregnancy. So within the 1st week of preg. While this embryo doesn’t look anything like a fetus or a baby at this point, the brain, backbone, and the cardio-vascular system – complete with a beating heart are beginning to form! go from there wk4 = wk2.
By the time someone finds out she is pregnant the baby has a beating heart. By the time someone has an abortion there is brain activity and movement.

#51   2009/09/23 02:45PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)



I know it sounds harsh, but realistically a 4-5 week old fetus is the size of an apple seed. Having an abortion at that stage is not near as bad as if she were further along.
It's not like they would be ripping a full formed baby out of her. Again harsh but that's just the facts.
RARELY do teens give up their babies after they are born, once they see them they decide to keep them regardless of their inability to care for them. I have a family member that gave up her baby, and at 16 I was in the delivery room with a friend and watched her child come into this world.
The first baby I ever saw born. She gave her baby up, and it was hard...as for my cousin she regrets it every single day of her life!!
You are very lucky to have been a great mother to your son, and that you went on to have a great life...that simply isn't the case for most teens.
I would also like to add, I have a good friend that is in the process of adopting her granddaughter, who she has cared for since the day she was born. Her son was 16 and the mom didn't have the skills or desire to be a "mom" at this time.
So you see I do see what you are saying, but I will say it again. It's the individuals choice, and the longer Janet waits, the bigger that baby gets.(I'm aware this is not real LOL) Janet is responsible for visiting her beliefs on her daughter, to get her to do what SHE wants. So in turn I think Janet is making things worse.
A good parent ASKS their child what they want, and supports them regardless of their own feelings or beliefs.

JMO


Tammer, true enough and I agree. But funny thing about the law, in everything EXCEPT abortion, you are not considered responsible enough to make decisions in most states until you are 18. Some are 17 and even fewer are 16. Good thing Liby isn't 15! How can a teen who made the assnine decision to 1 get drunk and 2 have unprotected sex, be responsible enough and of sound mind enough or even capable enough of making that kind of decision. Its not like we are talking about paying tax's here. We are talking about a human life.

by soap time, she has to be at least any where from 6 to 8 weeks pregnant. at three weeks there is already a heart. So it will be much more than just the size of an apple seed. At 10 weeks the basic brain structure is complete and it is 1.25 to 1.68 inches in size. Also at 8 weeks is the end of the embrionic period. But by the way Jannet is talking she has to be at least 12 to 13 weeks, close to the end of the 1st trimester of 14 weeks.


Firstly, here in Canada age of consent is 14.
Just because Liberty got drunk and had unprotected sex it doesn't mean she isn't of sound mind or is a to childish to make her own decisions...that is ridiculous! She is a well educated teen, even grown well educated adults make bad choices. Should their rights to choose be stripped away? Of course not.
I think it an asinine decision to make ANY teen have a baby! It's just wrong.

Now on to the "fetus" info. You are wrong about a 3 week old fetus' size.
4 weeks: The ball of cells – now called an embryo – growing inside your uterus (womb) is the size of an apple seed.

5 weeks: Your baby is about a quarter of a centimeter long and looks more like a tadpole than a human.
6 weeks: Your baby is the size of a lentil this week.
7 weeks: Now about 1cm long, the size of a grape.
8 weeks: Now measures approximately 1.6cm.

Although these are indeed facts, the discussion is not about whether or not this will indeed be a baby, it's about the freedom to choose if you want to have said baby.
As I said, abortion is not for me personally...however I would not presume to think what I want should be what an unwed teen mom wants.
Fact is abortion is out there, I for one am grateful. Would you expect a teen to give birth to a baby if she were raped or abused..even if it were a family member...say her father?
I would hope the heck not.
I respect your opinions, but I think everyone is losing focus. What I'm saying is Liberty is a very capable teen, and able to make her own choices..Janet prolonging it make the fetus get bigger and bigger and then well then I have a whole new perspective on the subject.
.
Liberty was not raped or abused. This is not Brads baby. This is a one night stand. She was not drunk. She took a drink then jumped on him. If she is such a smart girl and could make a rational decision, she would have controlled herself.

#52   2009/09/23 03:09PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

Quote hello goodbye:
Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)



I know it sounds harsh, but realistically a 4-5 week old fetus is the size of an apple seed. Having an abortion at that stage is not near as bad as if she were further along.
It's not like they would be ripping a full formed baby out of her. Again harsh but that's just the facts.
RARELY do teens give up their babies after they are born, once they see them they decide to keep them regardless of their inability to care for them. I have a family member that gave up her baby, and at 16 I was in the delivery room with a friend and watched her child come into this world.
The first baby I ever saw born. She gave her baby up, and it was hard...as for my cousin she regrets it every single day of her life!!
You are very lucky to have been a great mother to your son, and that you went on to have a great life...that simply isn't the case for most teens.
I would also like to add, I have a good friend that is in the process of adopting her granddaughter, who she has cared for since the day she was born. Her son was 16 and the mom didn't have the skills or desire to be a "mom" at this time.
So you see I do see what you are saying, but I will say it again. It's the individuals choice, and the longer Janet waits, the bigger that baby gets.(I'm aware this is not real LOL) Janet is responsible for visiting her beliefs on her daughter, to get her to do what SHE wants. So in turn I think Janet is making things worse.
A good parent ASKS their child what they want, and supports them regardless of their own feelings or beliefs.

JMO


Tammer, true enough and I agree. But funny thing about the law, in everything EXCEPT abortion, you are not considered responsible enough to make decisions in most states until you are 18. Some are 17 and even fewer are 16. Good thing Liby isn't 15! How can a teen who made the assnine decision to 1 get drunk and 2 have unprotected sex, be responsible enough and of sound mind enough or even capable enough of making that kind of decision. Its not like we are talking about paying tax's here. We are talking about a human life.

by soap time, she has to be at least any where from 6 to 8 weeks pregnant. at three weeks there is already a heart. So it will be much more than just the size of an apple seed. At 10 weeks the basic brain structure is complete and it is 1.25 to 1.68 inches in size. Also at 8 weeks is the end of the embrionic period. But by the way Jannet is talking she has to be at least 12 to 13 weeks, close to the end of the 1st trimester of 14 weeks.


Firstly, here in Canada age of consent is 14.
Just because Liberty got drunk and had unprotected sex it doesn't mean she isn't of sound mind or is a to childish to make her own decisions...that is ridiculous! She is a well educated teen, even grown well educated adults make bad choices. Should their rights to choose be stripped away? Of course not.
I think it an asinine decision to make ANY teen have a baby! It's just wrong.

Now on to the "fetus" info. You are wrong about a 3 week old fetus' size.
4 weeks: The ball of cells – now called an embryo – growing inside your uterus (womb) is the size of an apple seed.

5 weeks: Your baby is about a quarter of a centimeter long and looks more like a tadpole than a human.
6 weeks: Your baby is the size of a lentil this week.
7 weeks: Now about 1cm long, the size of a grape.
8 weeks: Now measures approximately 1.6cm.

Although these are indeed facts, the discussion is not about whether or not this will indeed be a baby, it's about the freedom to choose if you want to have said baby.
As I said, abortion is not for me personally...however I would not presume to think what I want should be what an unwed teen mom wants.
Fact is abortion is out there, I for one am grateful. Would you expect a teen to give birth to a baby if she were raped or abused..even if it were a family member...say her father?
I would hope the heck not.
I respect your opinions, but I think everyone is losing focus. What I'm saying is Liberty is a very capable teen, and able to make her own choices..Janet prolonging it make the fetus get bigger and bigger and then well then I have a whole new perspective on the subject.
.

Liberty was not raped or abused. This is not Brads baby. This is a one night stand. She was not drunk. She took a drink then jumped on him. If she is such a smart girl and could make a rational decision, she would have controlled herself.


Her not being drunk is a moot point, and makes your argument that she was not capable even less valid.
What you are saying is that EVERY woman that makes a rash decision to sleep with a guy..in the heat of the moment is incapable of making her own decision! It must be nice that in your world everyone can control their emotions and make the right choices. That is simply not always the case.
I'm not trying to jump on you, but what you say makes no sense at all. Mistakes happen, regardless of age, one should not have to pay for that mistake when they have choices.
BTW, I didn't imply Liberty was raped or that Brad was her baby's father.
I asked what if a teen?

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/09/23 03:59PM
#53   2009/09/23 03:59PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

Look I was raped at 16. I did not have an abortion. I raised him. I went to school. He is now 21. I would not trade him for the world. So do not play that card.

If you go out and murder someone because you were having a bad day. What would happen? What would the judge say if you told him it was a 1 time mistake. Why should I have to pay for it. He would laugh at you while sentencing you to prison. Well you have sex, you have consequences. Yes, you pay for your mistakes. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.

This choice people are quick to defend is MURDER. You are killing something with a beating heart.

#54   2009/09/23 04:15PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

Quote hello goodbye: Look I was raped at 16. I did not have an abortion. I raised him. I went to school. He is now 21. I would not trade him for the world. So do not play that card.

If you go out and murder someone because you were having a bad day. What would happen? What would the judge say if you told him it was a 1 time mistake. Why should I have to pay for it. He would laugh at you while sentencing you to prison. Well you have sex, you have consequences. Yes, you pay for your mistakes. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.

This choice people are quick to defend is MURDER. You are killing something with a beating heart.



Who is playing WHAT card? I asked a valid question, IF your daughter were raped or abused by a family member(like her father) would you expect her to have that child?
What you did was YOUR choice, YOU made it. No one told you you HAD to abort your child. No one should tell ANYONE that they have to have a baby they didn't plan or want. It is MURDER in YOUR opinion, there are people that don't think it is...oh and the law that says it isn't.
That "you play you pay" line is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous!
This is the "real world" welcome to it! We are not living in a "fantasy world" just because you don't believe in abortion and a woman's right to choose.
.And the part of your post(Well you have sex, you have consequences, Yes, you pay for your mistakes)...what a fantastic reason to bring a life into this world. PAYING FOR YOUR MISTAKES, so the baby is your punishment?

#55   2009/09/23 04:32PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: Look I was raped at 16. I did not have an abortion. I raised him. I went to school. He is now 21. I would not trade him for the world. So do not play that card.

If you go out and murder someone because you were having a bad day. What would happen? What would the judge say if you told him it was a 1 time mistake. Why should I have to pay for it. He would laugh at you while sentencing you to prison. Well you have sex, you have consequences. Yes, you pay for your mistakes. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.

This choice people are quick to defend is MURDER. You are killing something with a beating heart.



Who is playing WHAT card? I asked a valid question, IF your daughter were raped or abused by a family member(like her father) would you expect her to have that child?
What you did was YOUR choice, YOU made it. No one told you you HAD to abort your child. No one should tell ANYONE that they have to have a baby they didn't plan or want. It is MURDER in YOUR opinion, there are people that don't think it is...oh and the law that says it isn't.
That "you play you pay" line is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous!
This is the "real world" welcome to it! We are not living in a "fantasy world" just because you don't believe in abortion and a woman's right to choose.
.And the part of your post(Well you have sex, you have consequences, Yes, you pay for your mistakes)...what a fantastic reason to bring a life into this world. PAYING FOR YOUR MISTAKES, so the baby is your punishment?



You are right. You should just have a fetus slaughtered like it never existed. Then a female can go on with her happy go lucky life. What a happy choice.

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