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Standing by Janet......

Started by nonniepat at 2009/09/16 11:44AM
Latest post: 2009/10/05 01:45PM, Views: 1536, Replies: 94
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#31   2009/09/22 06:04PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
NoNuke4me
image

Quote nonniepat:
Quote Muffin_Top:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!


You have a very good point. I would like to see this subject approached from another point of view, rather than the ususal two points of view being presented: EITHER "Her body, her choice" or "Religious beliefs".

Please consider abortion as a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, whether you are faithful/religious or not.

I fully support "Your body, your choice" when no other body is attached to your body. Use birth control, have protected sex before marriage (if you want), be a mom or don't be a mom--you can be 'fulfilled' either way.

BUT, human procreation calls for the female to host the unborn human. The baby you have at nine months, take home, offer for adoption, or abort is the same HUMAN BEING in different developmental stages.

Once a person is pregnant, they are no longer chosing for only their body. Who supports the human rights of all human beings?


I really like the open and honest debate that is going on here.

But finally someone who realizes my point in all of this. Yes, I get the "religious" and the "choice" sides but there is one "side" that trumps them all and Muffin_Top got it........ Human Life. All human life is precious and yes once a woman decides to have sex she is making the choice for her own body alone but once she gets pregnant then that choice now effects 2 bodies - 2 lives - 2 human lives. Human rights - including the unborn- are before the religious and choice sides.

I know everyone has their own opinion so keep up the great respectful debate. This is a good thread.


Well if it's two human lives and one doesn't want to be apart of the other one's life anymore they should part ways. If you get married should you be forced to stay with that person for the rest of your life because you married him/her? No you made a mistake you get a divorce and you move on. If this is a human life then it should be able to live on it's on, otherwise it is a part of the body like a tumor, or an ingrown toenail and the owner of the body decides what stays and goes.
Suppose your child, parent or sibling needs a kidney, should you be forced to give up one of yours?? Sure most people would be all to happy to donate a kidney, but you shouldn't be forced to save a human life, you should do it because you want to and if Liberty doesn't want to then she shouldn't be forced too. This is America and we have to right to choose if we want a triple whopper, if we want to eat nothing but veggies, if we want to give birth or not.

#32   2009/09/22 06:41PM
Re: Standing by Janet......
2577Echo
image

I am wondering why Liberty's Mom and Dad were so out of tune with their daughter that they did not know she was floundering and feeling alone. Mothers I know are pretty attuned to their children's moods, unless the mothers are pursuing their own agendas or "finding themselves". I did not micromanage or hover over my son, but I could tell when something was bothering him. We usually went for one of our mother and son nights out at a quiet place, where he had my sole attention and knew he could tell me anything without being yelled out or judged. He wasn't perfect, but he has turned out to be a great human being and son. My mother always told me she could tell when something was wrong, because my eyes turned down at the corners!! Her words, "Don't ever try to play poker with that face." She was one of my best friends until her death at 90 years of age. She had great taste in men, too, as my Dad was one of the best.

I never had to "find myself", because I was never lost, even during the motherhood and marriage years. The point is, I think this whole thing could have been prevented. However, I did not write the show.

#33   2009/09/23 03:12AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
hello goodbye
image

Quote NoNuke4me:
Quote nonniepat:
Quote Muffin_Top:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!


You have a very good point. I would like to see this subject approached from another point of view, rather than the ususal two points of view being presented: EITHER "Her body, her choice" or "Religious beliefs".

Please consider abortion as a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, whether you are faithful/religious or not.

I fully support "Your body, your choice" when no other body is attached to your body. Use birth control, have protected sex before marriage (if you want), be a mom or don't be a mom--you can be 'fulfilled' either way.

BUT, human procreation calls for the female to host the unborn human. The baby you have at nine months, take home, offer for adoption, or abort is the same HUMAN BEING in different developmental stages.

Once a person is pregnant, they are no longer chosing for only their body. Who supports the human rights of all human beings?


I really like the open and honest debate that is going on here.

But finally someone who realizes my point in all of this. Yes, I get the "religious" and the "choice" sides but there is one "side" that trumps them all and Muffin_Top got it........ Human Life. All human life is precious and yes once a woman decides to have sex she is making the choice for her own body alone but once she gets pregnant then that choice now effects 2 bodies - 2 lives - 2 human lives. Human rights - including the unborn- are before the religious and choice sides.

I know everyone has their own opinion so keep up the great respectful debate. This is a good thread.


Well if it's two human lives and one doesn't want to be apart of the other one's life anymore they should part ways. If you get married should you be forced to stay with that person for the rest of your life because you married him/her? No you made a mistake you get a divorce and you move on. If this is a human life then it should be able to live on it's on, otherwise it is a part of the body like a tumor, or an ingrown toenail and the owner of the body decides what stays and goes.
Suppose your child, parent or sibling needs a kidney, should you be forced to give up one of yours?? Sure most people would be all to happy to donate a kidney, but you shouldn't be forced to save a human life, you should do it because you want to and if Liberty doesn't want to then she shouldn't be forced too. This is America and we have to right to choose if we want a triple whopper, if we want to eat nothing but veggies, if we want to give birth or not.


This is not the same thing at all. How could you compare any of this to killing an unborn baby? You divorce you spouse, NOT kill them. You give a kidney, not cut it out and dance on it. So you eat vegetables, you do not go slaughter a cow because you don't eat it.

You are talking about a baby that is growing and developing. How can you be so quick to kill (slaughter) it? She could give it up for adoption. Janet could raise it until she is ready. There are so many more options. She can still go to college. Her life is not over.

#34   2009/09/23 07:26AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

The point is that although we all have different opinions, it's not illegal to have an abortion. The point is one has the right to "choose" and no one has the right to condemn them for their own personal choices..or "quilt" them into doing what others want or think they should do.

#35   2009/09/23 09:14AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
calliope
image

I still insist that Liberty is a human life too! She has a good future right now with her desire to go to school. Should the future of this human life be put in jeapordy because she is forced to do something her mother wants her to do?

#36   2009/09/23 10:38AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)

#37   2009/09/23 10:47AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote Muffin_Top:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!


You have a very good point. I would like to see this subject approached from another point of view, rather than the ususal two points of view being presented: EITHER "Her body, her choice" or "Religious beliefs".

Please consider abortion as a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE, whether you are faithful/religious or not.

I fully support "Your body, your choice" when no other body is attached to your body. Use birth control, have protected sex before marriage (if you want), be a mom or don't be a mom--you can be 'fulfilled' either way.

BUT, human procreation calls for the female to host the unborn human. The baby you have at nine months, take home, offer for adoption, or abort is the same HUMAN BEING in different developmental stages.

Once a person is pregnant, they are no longer chosing for only their body. Who supports the human rights of all human beings?



ITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I rarely ever hear this argument!!!!
I always say, what about the rights of that unborn child?!?!?!?

#38   2009/09/23 10:52AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote lttlangel420:
Quote hello goodbye:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!




You are a scary mom!! I guess your child had better walk the straight and narrow because she has no voice with you.




My kids have morals. If one of mine has a teen pregnancy it is for life. If they do not want to be a teen parent then they better use protection are abstinence. ABORTION is NOT an option.
Kids mess up. It is how they learn to handle their mistakes in life. Murder is not a choice for mine. You cannot just get drunk and have sex unprotected, then walk away from your mistake. It does not work that way. What about the rights of the fetus? It has a heart right away. With in no time it will have fingers, toes, eyes a mouth..get the picture. A baby is not the end of the world. It could be a lot worse.



If one of you children was involved with an unwanted pregnancy and they choose to have an abortion, could you forgive them????

Liberty was scared to make a choice because she's afraid her mother will never forgive her and might stop loving her. I don't think anyone should ever make a decision like this out of fear.


OK here's a question. Why does the fetus get rights and the person pregnant doesn't???????


If I had a daughter and she chose abortion I would forgive her, its not my place to be unforgiving. If God can forgive me for my sins than I am no better than anyone else! BUT....Once you make the choice of having unprotected sex and end up pregnant you don't have just YOUR rights to deal with! Basically, your rights go right out the window with the condom that wasn't used!

#39   2009/09/23 10:53AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye:
Quote Tammer:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote nonniepat: I am sure that no one will agree with me here but Janet is doing the right thing with Liberty. Teri needs to but out she's not a mother, Jack needs to be supportive but let Janet handle it like she let him handle helping Carly and the kids (or tried to). Brad needs to let Janet handle this as well. Janet knows Liberty very well and I'm sure that raising Liberty alone Janet met all kinds of people and has seen what abortion can do to a woman.
I for one am proud that Janet is so conscious of human life (especially her child and grandchild) to help her daughter to realize the implications of this decision. From one who has been in Janet's shoes I can understand both sides of this and I'm sure Janet can too. She sacrificed her family for Liberty and if she hadn't there would be no Liberty.


Ok I will post!! I totally disagree with you. I am a mother and if my daughter came to me telling me she messed up and got pregnant, the first thing I'd do, after I regain my composure, is listen to her. I'd then give her all the options and we would go from there. However, I'd never tell her 'oh been there! done that! you can too!' Like Brad said, it is her choice.


ITA with you! I never posted because I feel Janet is DEAD wrong! she needs to support Liberty, and not visit her beliefs on her daughter. Its ok to give her ALL the options, but telling her she is NOT having an abortion is just wrong. Janet had a choice, so should Liberty. Mom should support but let her decide on her own, like so many posters have said..Libby seems to be a very smart girl, she knows what she wants.


Liberty is 17. A CHILD in the eyes of the law. She still lives under her mamas roof. Janet pays her bills. Janet has EVERY RIGHT to tell her daughter what to do. Liberty does not understand the long term effect this will have on her.



Janet has no right to force her beliefs on Liberty. If you want to go 'she is her mother' way, then Brad is her father and he wants Liberty to make the decision. You sound like one of those people who think 'children should be seen and not heard'. Even children have a voice, you just have to learn to listen.



Good point, but... Brad didn't raise liberty AND liberty lives with her mother. Even Katie doesn't agree with Brad.

#40   2009/09/23 10:55AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's so great!! Now make that embryo live outside the woman at 22 days. Too many people want to make decisions for everyone else without hearing the persons wishes. 'Choice' you have one and so does the character and everyone else.



I'm sorry but not only are you missing the point, but that is just stupid! The point is, IT IS HUMAN regardless of when it can live out side the body!

#41   2009/09/23 11:01AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye:
Quote lttlangel420:
Quote hello goodbye:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!




You are a scary mom!! I guess your child had better walk the straight and narrow because she has no voice with you.




My kids have morals. If one of mine has a teen pregnancy it is for life. If they do not want to be a teen parent then they better use protection are abstinence. ABORTION is NOT an option.
Kids mess up. It is how they learn to handle their mistakes in life. Murder is not a choice for mine. You cannot just get drunk and have sex unprotected, then walk away from your mistake. It does not work that way. What about the rights of the fetus? It has a heart right away. With in no time it will have fingers, toes, eyes a mouth..get the picture. A baby is not the end of the world. It could be a lot worse.



If one of you children was involved with an unwanted pregnancy and they choose to have an abortion, could you forgive them????

Liberty was scared to make a choice because she's afraid her mother will never forgive her and might stop loving her. I don't think anyone should ever make a decision like this out of fear.


OK here's a question. Why does the fetus get rights and the person pregnant doesn't???????


Is it the fetus' fault she chose to have unprotected sex? NO. So someone has to fight for them.

Yes, I would make my kids feel guilty. That is my job as a mother and as a Christian. If God did not want her to have the baby then she would not have gotten pregnant. She does not have to keep it. She could give it away. She could go away to school. She could home school for a few months. Lot of other options. She knew the consequence of sex.

Don't think for a second I would not be taking my child to the preacher. Would do everything Janet is doing and more.

Oh well this is MY opinion. It is sad to see how many people would just terminate a pregnancy. Just think of all the incredible, smart, talented children being killed. It is really sad!



The entire point is that your opinion wont' be the one that matters!! It is the opionion of the person who is pregnant. I can't stand the fact that people hide behind God and Christianity. News Flash!!! God gave us free will and he forgives even if parents who are supposed to love their children unconditionally can't. You are the reason a pregnant teen doesn't need parental consent.


and you would be the reason they should!!! Don't mean to be nasty, but that person didn't hide behind God and Christianity. Oh and by the way just about EVERY religion, especially middle eastern religion it is forbidden! Matter of a fact in the middle east an unwed girl would be MURDERED for getting pregnant! At least hear they are given the option of choice. YES God gave us free will... but some how, I don't think abortion was one of them! Its funny how people will pitch a fit about animal rights, human rights, mothers rights, but totally ignor the right of the unborn!

#42   2009/09/23 11:12AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
GLfan85
image

Quote NoNuke4me:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: All I can say is WHATEVER.. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will answer in the end for my choices just as you will. I am NOT hiding behind Christianity are God. I choose to believe in something good. Maybe some of you should give it a try. Maybe the world would be a better place.


Just because you assume we don't believe in something good doesn't make it so.
No one is taking away your right to your opinion, however you are insulting us for ours.
NOT everyone believes in God, therefore those people don't have to "answer" to anyone. You "choose" to believe in God..that is your right.


Your right Tammer, we don't agree on much, but personal freedom to choose is something we agree on.
I got a question for anyone playing the God card, I myself am a Christian so I believe in God. I know a little about the bible, and yes murder is wrong, along with many other sins. I also remember something about asking for forgiveness and God forgiving you of your sins. So if abortion is a sin can you not ask for forgiveness? Will God not forgive you? Is this the one unforgivable sin? I don't think so, If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, if that fetus growing in Liberty's belly is so important to Janet let her take it and put it in her belly, but don't force Liberty to carry it around for nine months and miss out on her senior year of high school.


Well now lets see, from a Christian point of view, yes God will forgive you when you ask for forgiveness. However being a Christian doesn't give you a license to sin! Second of all, it is physically impossible to remove a fetus from Liberty and have Jannet carry it. I know this is a soap but come on! 3rd I was pregnant my last three months as a Jr and still went to high school my Sr year and didn't miss out on high school. But what you are saying is kinda like if a kid does something illegal and has to go to jouvie they shouldn't be punished to that extent because they will miss out on their Sr year. PLEASE girls complete high school pregnant every year. All it means is that they will miss out on parties (maybe) and getting into trouble or playing sports. And last, from a nonChristian view (which is what I was when I found my self pregnant), it becomes a moral issue. A human rights issue. An I screwed up and now have to deal with it issue instead of getting an abortion and hope I never think of it again.

#43   2009/09/23 11:16AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

Quote GLfan85:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: How is it NOT Janet's right? That is her underage daughter. She has every right to put a stop to it. Liberty can give the baby up for adoption. That is what is wrong with the kids today, parents have no rights.

If she was my kid I would do the something Janet is doing. I would NOT allow her to have an abortion. It would not be an option. She made a mistake grow up and deal with it. Murder is not the answer!


I explained to you how it is not Janet's right.
Liberty isn't some "underage" child. She has been a married woman, and in some threads on this board it was said that she wasn't too young to make that decision.
She made the decision to have sex, she has the legal and moral right to decide whether or not she wants a child of hers brought into this world. In my experience with family members and friends, abortion was a much better choice than wondering for the rest of your life where your child is.
EVERY woman deserves and has the right to choose what to d with their bodies.
Would I have an abortion? Not on your life! That route isn't for me, but if my daughter was in this position I would let her decide after giving her all her options.


Again yes it is Lib's choice. But I have to wonder, will her options include detail information on just HOW that child will be aborted??? If I had a daughter and she was 17 going on 18, I would do everything in my power to discourage her from make that decision. While a person who gives up a child for adoption may wonder where that child is, at least they won't go through life wondering who that child would have been. I was 17 when I had my now almost 20 year old son. the idea of abortion was revulting to me, not because of religion (didn't have any then) but because of morals, and I just couldn't handle the idea of being responsible for the death of an unborn child. Even if he had been born with some kind of medical condition I would still not regret that choice today. If I had given him up for adoption I would of been content with that as well because then I would of given him a better life than what I probably could of given him. But as it turned out, at 17 I still graduated high school. I even have a BA degree, albeit 17 years later. I have a good job and a real family. I didn't have support of my family back then and even found my self divorced from his father when he was 3. (married him when my son was 3 months old after I graduated high school)

I know of girls who's parents raised the child, I even know a few who chose abortion and to this day are tormented by that choice. It is a living being who one day could change the world. (well except this is on a soap! LOL)



I know it sounds harsh, but realistically a 4-5 week old fetus is the size of an apple seed. Having an abortion at that stage is not near as bad as if she were further along.
It's not like they would be ripping a full formed baby out of her. Again harsh but that's just the facts.
RARELY do teens give up their babies after they are born, once they see them they decide to keep them regardless of their inability to care for them. I have a family member that gave up her baby, and at 16 I was in the delivery room with a friend and watched her child come into this world.
The first baby I ever saw born. She gave her baby up, and it was hard...as for my cousin she regrets it every single day of her life!!
You are very lucky to have been a great mother to your son, and that you went on to have a great life...that simply isn't the case for most teens.
I would also like to add, I have a good friend that is in the process of adopting her granddaughter, who she has cared for since the day she was born. Her son was 16 and the mom didn't have the skills or desire to be a "mom" at this time.
So you see I do see what you are saying, but I will say it again. It's the individuals choice, and the longer Janet waits, the bigger that baby gets.(I'm aware this is not real LOL) Janet is responsible for visiting her beliefs on her daughter, to get her to do what SHE wants. So in turn I think Janet is making things worse.
A good parent ASKS their child what they want, and supports them regardless of their own feelings or beliefs.

JMO

#44   2009/09/23 11:21AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
Tammer
image

Quote GLfan85:
Quote NoNuke4me:
Quote Tammer:
Quote hello goodbye: All I can say is WHATEVER.. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will answer in the end for my choices just as you will. I am NOT hiding behind Christianity are God. I choose to believe in something good. Maybe some of you should give it a try. Maybe the world would be a better place.


Just because you assume we don't believe in something good doesn't make it so.
No one is taking away your right to your opinion, however you are insulting us for ours.
NOT everyone believes in God, therefore those people don't have to "answer" to anyone. You "choose" to believe in God..that is your right.


Your right Tammer, we don't agree on much, but personal freedom to choose is something we agree on.
I got a question for anyone playing the God card, I myself am a Christian so I believe in God. I know a little about the bible, and yes murder is wrong, along with many other sins. I also remember something about asking for forgiveness and God forgiving you of your sins. So if abortion is a sin can you not ask for forgiveness? Will God not forgive you? Is this the one unforgivable sin? I don't think so, If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, if that fetus growing in Liberty's belly is so important to Janet let her take it and put it in her belly, but don't force Liberty to carry it around for nine months and miss out on her senior year of high school.


Well now lets see, from a Christian point of view, yes God will forgive you when you ask for forgiveness. However being a Christian doesn't give you a license to sin! Second of all, it is physically impossible to remove a fetus from Liberty and have Jannet carry it. I know this is a soap but come on! 3rd I was pregnant my last three months as a Jr and still went to high school my Sr year and didn't miss out on high school. But what you are saying is kinda like if a kid does something illegal and has to go to jouvie they shouldn't be punished to that extent because they will miss out on their Sr year. PLEASE girls complete high school pregnant every year. All it means is that they will miss out on parties (maybe) and getting into trouble or playing sports. And last, from a nonChristian view (which is what I was when I found my self pregnant), it becomes a moral issue. A human rights issue. An I screwed up and now have to deal with it issue instead of getting an abortion and hope I never think of it again.


She doesn't want to have the baby, its quite simple.
That was a choice you made, and you wanted.
She doesn't want that, regardless if it means she can still go to school.
Its about freedom to choose. No one should have to have a child just because they made a mistake.
What if when you were pregnant your mom said, no you are not having that baby, you are getting an abortion? Would you do it just because that is what she wanted?
Of course not.

#45   2009/09/23 11:27AM
Re: Standing by Janet......
EVSCNB
image

Quote hello goodbye:
Quote EVSCNB:
Quote hello goodbye: All I can say is WHATEVER.. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will answer in the end for my choices just as you will. I am NOT hiding behind Christianity are God. I choose to believe in something good. Maybe some of you should give it a try. Maybe the world would be a better place.



There you go again!! Thinking the opinion that counts is yours - 'I choose to believe in something good. Maybe some of you should give it a try. Maybe the world would be a better place'. Let me say someting you obviously understand.....WHATEVER!!




Given your reaction I think deep down you agree!



LOL!! I am a rare breed. I say what I mean and mean what I say and always say it to whom I am talking about.

Modified 1 times(s), last time at: 2009/09/23 11:44AM
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